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Hot Rods Early Corvette drag racing Tips and tricks

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lumpy 63, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,547

    lumpy 63
    Member

    Ok , here it goes ... there seems to be quite a bit of interest in early solid axle Vette's here lately. Myself who just bought a 59 ex drag car thats been in storage many years , 31hotrodguy who just bought a bad ass 61 Fuelie . Also we have Jim Dillon , Vettrod62 , Scotty T , Loudbang and even Moriarty. I'm sure I have missed some name's and I apologize...My goal is for guys to post period drag racing modifications to C1s. Headers , suspension including what front springs to use for weight transfer. Types of traction bars used , roll bars that fit under the hard top. Hood scoops , shifters , olds -Pontiac rear end swaps ... whatever you guys have to add. My plan is a street strip early Vette that runs very solid in the mid 11s is period looking and I can drive it on the street. Thanks for taking the time to read this and looking forward to some awesome input:cool:
     
  2. Sorry, I don't really have anything to contribute, but I will be following along.
     
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  3. Unique Rustorations
    Joined: Nov 15, 2018
    Posts: 623

    Unique Rustorations
    Member

    Don’t forget Chuck Norton and his ‘57!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  4. C1/C2Guy
    Joined: Aug 15, 2019
    Posts: 77

    C1/C2Guy
    Member
    from Utah

    Hey lumpy63, do you have a pic of your 59?

    Here is a pic of a roll cage. I can't remember who's car it was. I just saved the pic for future reference Radical C1-32.jpg
     

  5. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,547

    lumpy 63
    Member

    Thanks for the roll bar pics. Here is my Vette, ex drag car that was in storage for over 40 years. Has an Olds rear end. Inner fenders cut out for fender well headers and unfortunately the PO hacked out the dash board which I am working on replacing at the moment.
    21626.jpeg 21627.jpeg 21628.jpeg 21629.jpeg 21632.jpeg
     
  6. wisdonm
    Joined: Jun 20, 2011
    Posts: 444

    wisdonm
    Member

    What's a roll cage. That is certainly not a period correct C1 cage.
     
  7. C1/C2Guy
    Joined: Aug 15, 2019
    Posts: 77

    C1/C2Guy
    Member
    from Utah

    True... The roll bar in my 56 IS period correct but I do not want to depend on it for safety :confused: File Jul 28, 7 05 46 AM.jpeg
     
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  8. C1/C2Guy
    Joined: Aug 15, 2019
    Posts: 77

    C1/C2Guy
    Member
    from Utah

    Lumpy, Your car looks like a great project! I hope you are able to get it on the road / track soon!
     
  9. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,203

    jimdillon
    Member

    Larry and Colin glad you started the threads. Hopefully it will make for some interesting reading and thought. As to period correct rollbars, there are not many people more hung up on old school than I, but the reality is most if not all tech inspectors do not hold the same views. If Colin wants to run in the 11s then a rollbar/cage is the only way to go. My red car had an old three point bar from back in the day and I replaced it with a three point chrome bar that I fabbed and tech inspectors realize what I was doing but were not overjoyed with it. Although you do not have to run a cage until you go quicker than 11.5, I had tech guys tell me to not go any quicker that 12.00 with my bar. One even told me if I removed it they would let me go high 11s, but truth be told the car is set up to go 12s so no big deal.

    I have some pictures of John Reidenbach's cage during construction with his black 62 that is now running low 9s. I also may have a couple of pictures that Quain Stott fabricated for the 61 that is now called Frequent Flyer.. Vetrod though has a pretty nice bar setup in his black car and he is able to run quicker that 11.5 with it, I believe. I thought I had pictures of Jim's bar and I probably do but it is not in the file I thought.I liked the way Jim went thru the convertible top lid and it looks pretty sanitary IMO. I will see what I can dig up and throw them in here for ideas or comparison. I also know Baron installed a nice setup with his big block 57 and there may be some pictures we can find on that.

    If 31hotrodguy is going to run a Tremec then he is probably going to go a bit quicker than stock and consider a bar/cage as well.

    I am sure there will be more than a couple of topics we can ponder and looking forward to it.
     
  10. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,203

    jimdillon
    Member

    Had a crazy morning so may as well add a few photos now instead of working like I should.

    Here are a couple of pics of John Reidenbach's 62 that he built out of a derelict. Car runs really strong.
    20161005_124504.jpg
    A side shot.
    20161005_124517.jpg
    A picture of John getting in the car at the 2018 Uncle Sam's Pie Crust event-he was the quickest car at that event-date on photo is not correct)..
    PC1-003r.jpg
    John and I side by side in the pits. If he was quickest, I was not second quick that day, although we had a lot of fun. You had to average your 3 qualifying runs and then go thru eliminations. Fun day to say the least.
    002r1.jpg
    Here is a pic of Quain's work when he was building the 61 a few years back. Quain told me his first car was a 62 Vette-great guy. Car is now called Frequent Flyer and has a SEGA championship, a couple of years ago. Mitch Stott drove this car when they finished it. IMG_0854 - Copy.jpg

    Another pic of the same car.
    IMG_0857 - Copy.jpg
    A picture of Steve Norton's 56 Tunnel Rat during construction.
    IMG_1706 (2).JPG
    Here are a few pictures of my 60 chassis that was done by Ricky Moore in Alabama. This was an old gasser in the 60s with a small block and a Pontiac rear. Ricky updated the car in the early 70s and ran gas and modified production with a BBC, Doug Nash and Dana 60. This car did not have a modern cage by today's standards but you can make out where he mounted the tubes, making a v plate that he welded to the frame.
    autos-14 016.jpg
    Vette -12-13 005.jpg
    Vette -12-13 009.jpg

    I tried to find Jim's pictures but I out smarted myself and hid them somewhere. Hopefully Jim can show us how he did it. Hope this inspires some thought.
     
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  11. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,547

    lumpy 63
    Member

    Hey Jim really like the look of your 60 bar:cool: thanks for posting . This weekend when I go to the shop I will take pictures of my rear suspension ....it ranks right up there with the clutch linkage pics I sent youo_O
     
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  12. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,203

    jimdillon
    Member

    Here is something I saved some time ago that Jim had posted in regards to roll bars. It was a number of years ago so you may want to check the latest regs but this may give you some idea of tech requirements'

    4:10 ROLL BARS
    Mandatory in all cars running 11.49 or quicker, or per Class
    Requirements. All roll bars must be within 6 inches of the rear
    or side of the driver’s head, extend in height at least 3 inches
    above the driver’s helmet with driver in normal driving position,
    and be at least as wide as the driver’s shoulders or within 1
    inch of the driver’s door. Roll bar must be adequately supported
    or cross-braced to prevent forward or lateral collapse. Rear
    braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the
    roll bar and intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5
    inches from the top of the roll bar. Crossbar and rear braces
    must be welded to main hoop. Sidebar must be included on
    driver’s side and must pass the driver at a point midway
    between the shoulder and elbow. Swing-out sidebar permitted.
    All roll bars must have in their construction a cross bar for seat
    bracing and as the shoulder-harness attachment point; cross
    bar must be installed no more than 4 inches below, and not
    above, the driver’s shoulders or to side bar. All vehicles with
    OEM frame (i.e., pickup truck where body bolts to framerails)
    must have roll bar welded or bolted to frame.
     
  13. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,704

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    If 31hotrodguy is going to run a Tremec then he is probably going to go a bit quicker than stock and consider a bar/cage as well.

    I am sure there will be more than a couple of topics we can ponder and looking forward to it.[/QUOTE]

    Now we have even more corvette threads! This really is like Christmas! Lol

    As of current I’m planning on going as fast as the injector will let me. But knowing how that works I went with the TREMEC so I had room to “play.”




    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  14. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,203

    jimdillon
    Member

    31 hrg-If you are going to run the Rochester injection, depending on what else you do, 12s are certainly within your wheelhouse. You certainly can have fun with a Rochester injected small block and both Dick Hare ran 12s with his 61 fuelie in the early 60s and Mike Lenke also ran 12s with his 62 fuelie at the 62 Winternationals. Of course you can always go faster depending on your wallet. If 12s are your target, then you can run without a cage and still have a bunch of fun. If you run the stock rear end you may have to upgrade a few items, as 50 some year old metallurgy is not something you can rely on with confidence. Once you ask for advice I am sure there will be more than a few items to consider.
     
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  15. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,547

    lumpy 63
    Member

    So today I received my new Lakewood scattershield, part #15000LKW . It does have the Z bar mounting bracket welded to it. Also buttoned up my 327:rolleyes: long block. will post some pics tomorrow.
     
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  16. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,704

    31hotrodguy
    Member

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  17. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,704

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    Jim,
    That is reassuring. I would definitely like to get down in the 12’a with a street car! Then again those were jr stock guys right?

    Yes, the rear end will be my weak link until I get a Pontiac set up. I’ll just make sure I don’t hook up in the mean time.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  18. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,203

    jimdillon
    Member

    I mention the 12s in the sense that your plan will most likely not include a roll bar which is fine and reasonable in some sense. The roll bar on the street has some negatives admittedly although I have padded cushions on the bar behind my head and the passenger seat as well. Both Rapid Rabbit (Hare's 61) and Lenke's 62 were what we now call Jr stockers. Throw in Lombardo with Buckshot and in 69 he ran the 275 version injection setup and was in the same ballpark as when he ran the dual quads-mid to low 12s. Of course they ran some pretty stout gears that are not very street friendly but you can run a reasonable gear (370-4.11) and increase cubic inch and hit the 12s without too much pain in the wallet hopefully.

    An Olds/Pontiac rear would be cool and the way to go with a vintage/nostalgia build but if you run the stock rearend there are a few things to lessen your chances of breakage in the meantime. With my black car it is pretty much stock and the engine is a stock 327/365. The heads and cam are stock and driveline close to stock (other than the M22).

    Screwing around on the street some years ago, I broke an axle and on another occasion, the spider gears, so when I decided to have a little fun drag racing at the vintage stuff, I chose an Eaton posi and also bought some Moser axles. The Mosers are hobby axles but are a bit stronger and the metal is not degraded due to 50 years of use. They are pretty inexpensive. I have probably 85 runs on them and although I do not hammer the car too hard I am happy with the cheap insurance. This past summer I had I believe 10 runs at the Glory Days event and I came out pretty soft (2500 to 3000) but I still have fun and do not have to use my winch to get it back in the trailer.
     
  19. C1/C2Guy
    Joined: Aug 15, 2019
    Posts: 77

    C1/C2Guy
    Member
    from Utah

    As for rear ends, there is still the option of a Dana60 too. I have a Olds / Pont 9.3 in my 56. I know it is expensive to build these rear ends but if going that route then https://fabcraftmetalworks.com/ is a great resource for parts and info on these. Super nice people to deal with.

    I think a Dana 60 will save some $ and still be period correct vs a 9" . A shop up the street from me has new bare housings for about $400? They use them a lot in Jeeps. I think the width is about right for a C1. I will do some more research on them
     
  20. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,547

    lumpy 63
    Member

    Pics as promised.
    21651.jpeg 21652.jpeg
     
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  21. C1/C2Guy
    Joined: Aug 15, 2019
    Posts: 77

    C1/C2Guy
    Member
    from Utah

    I like it!! Some may bad mouth the aluminum heads and the VJ intake as not being period. I like it and the valve cover spacers to clear the roller rockers, breathers in the covers, Fuelie oil pan are perfect IMO
     
  22. C1/C2Guy
    Joined: Aug 15, 2019
    Posts: 77

    C1/C2Guy
    Member
    from Utah

    This is the 327 engine I built to put in my 56 to try and keep everything period and rough looking to math the terrible body and paint. I think your engine will be a better runner IMG_3057.JPG IMG_3058.JPG
     
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  23. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,547

    lumpy 63
    Member

    Yeah , I had to make some concessions on my engine build but will try to dress it as nostalgic as possible. The intake is a very early vic jr with the breather hole in back. My bud Scott is gonna fab up some fenderwell headers patterned after an old catalog pic he found. The valve covers are early 9 fin with the adapters which work perfectly to clear the valve train as you mentioned:cool:
     
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  24. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,547

    lumpy 63
    Member

    BTW, Love the breadbox intake and 660s. I bought a couple of the last 660s when Holley blew em out awhile back
     
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  25. C1/C2Guy
    Joined: Aug 15, 2019
    Posts: 77

    C1/C2Guy
    Member
    from Utah

    Thanks, I think they are a really cool intake too. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the small block version of that is a "shoebox" and the big block version is a "breadbox"
    I think Vetrod62 ran one of those with 660's on Butch's 61. Maybe he will chime in and let us know how it worked.
     
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  26. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,547

    lumpy 63
    Member

    You are probably correct on the terminology , My buddy Steve had one on his 40 ford years ago with a stout 327. He said it would run like stink but he had problems with fuel puddling inside the box.
     
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  27. vetrod62
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 341

    vetrod62
    Member
    from Towaco NJ

    Yes, I put my old TR-1 manifold on Butch's 61. Along with My 461 Gasser heads extremely ported in 1967, and one of my solid roller cam profiles. When I ran that combo, I shifted at 10,000. ( Different cam than in Butch's car.) The carbs are 770 cfm each, special order from Edelbrock for the tunnel ram manifolds. I ran the carbs with mechanical secondary's, I converted the carbs back to vacuum secondary's for Butch's car.

    How they workout, Great!! He short shifted all his gears and ran the best time of his life. A full 1/2 second better.
    That was one of his best days racing. Jim

    upload_2020-10-8_18-2-15.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  28. vetrod62
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 341

    vetrod62
    Member
    from Towaco NJ

    Hi Jim D, The track made me put in the roll bar, now I am good to 10.00
    And once again, I can not load more than 1 pix

    upload_2020-10-8_18-51-57.png
     
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  29. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,082

    Elcohaulic

    I really dig that green..

    I would change the alignment settings to this;
    Caster 1 degree positive.
    Camber zero.
    Toe in 1/32-1/32
     
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  30. stuart in mn
    Joined: Nov 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,152

    stuart in mn
    Member

    If you're going with a four speed, the early T-10 was known to be somewhat fragile so it may be a good idea to upgrade to something newer and beefier.
     
    loudbang likes this.

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