Hey guys, just wondering if someone can describe the idle quality of the old Duntov 097? I am looking for something with a bit of noticable lope, but that doesnt require increased compression. Just wanting to make a basically stock 305 sound better at idle. This motor had Speedway Motor's 2bbl solid cam and it would not run past 4500 rpm, I am guessing way too much overlap for the stock compression ratio. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Louie
I had one in my 283 equipped 40 Ford. It lopes " Noticeable " But I believe with a 305 ... I would go ahead and get the old 327/350 hydraulic. Lots of cam companies make " copys " of that camshaft profile.
Here's a video my 57 I just finished - it has a 40 over 283 with the solid lifter 097 cam...listen and see what you think. My timing and carbs aren't quite dialed in yet, but you can get the idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhVnKWZOS0o
Thanks! I guess I should mention that you're listening to the cam via Fentons and some generic 4" straight tube mufflers.
Louie, the lope will not be as noticeable in a 305 as it would be in a 283.. The stroke "kills" the lope. The cam that sounds really lumpy in a 283 (3" stroke) smooths out some in a 327 (3.25 stroke) and is pretty mellow in a 350 or 305 (3.48 stroke) and will barely be noticeable in a 400 (4.00 stroke) Also, the likely reason the 305 would not rev is the valve springs.. Solid cams need more spring pressure, both on the seat (valve closed) and at full lift.. Betcha you were floating the valves @ 4500.. Dave
Hot Rod Joe....I'm not really a '57 Chevy kind of guy, but I have to say that your car is bitchin'! Nice work dude!
Thanks for the positive comments! I've been working on it for 3 yrs now, body off the frame, etc. It's starting to pay off. If anybody has advice on how to best setup the progressive linkage on the dual WCFBs, I'd appreciate it. HRJ
thanks for all the info....wierd never considered stroke killing the lope in a cam, wonder what dynamic causes that. The 305 that I have has z28 valvesprings so I'm figuring they shouldve been good enough, since the same 305 heads were on my 350, and it would see 6500 with no prob. I had lots of people tell me that all the overlap in that solid cam would kill the already low compression, and the rpms....just what I was told. Took that cam out and put in a torquey Lunati Voodoo, and the thing ran like a raped ape (considering its only a 305) on a dirt circle track. But the idle is really smooth and pulls 15" of vac at 4500ft elev. Im just looking for a choppy idle, with the solid lifter clatter. Thanks again, any help would be appreciated. Louie
TOTALLY BITCHEN 57!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dN-qOaAzIw <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8dN-qOaAzIw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8dN-qOaAzIw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> BTW, this is the 305 with the Speedway Motors solid cam.....sounded so good..... Louie
I ran an 097 in my '57 283. It had a fair lope too it at an 850 RPM idle. It had a small lift, .390 if I remember correctly, too much duration and no low end torque. I loved the solid lifter sound it made. I'd run the lifters at .008 and .018. Lowend was real doggy though. You could do much better with today's cam grinder's offering. My current 355 SBC runs a Comp XTreme energy. IT RULES !!!!!!!!
097 cam needs some compression to run properly--just finished a 57 Bel Air with a Rochester fuel injected 283 with this cam and 10.5 comp.--valves set at 8 and 18--runs very well for what it is--very strong little motor from about 2000 up to about 6500-(only 150 miles so far)-no flat spots and very drivable as well but idle is 850 minimum--sounds real good even with stock 57 exhaust -this cam was also used in 62 327's and sounds good in those too--old design -again, there are more modern grinds that perform better but as an old timer, I like the sound and feel of this cam in an early small block but it does not like auto trans applications unless there is some stall in the converter-neither does the old 350HP 327 (#151 cam)-vacuum around 14-15" for both
Hot Rod Joe, Is that a clone or a genuine black widow? I noticed its got the right 6 lug bolt pattern. I think it sounds great
The old 098 and the 30-30 Duntov cams sounded good in a 283 back in their day. They didn't have a whole lot of low end torque--- you needed a 4.11 rear end or better to make them work. The 350 horse 327 cam and the 350 horse 350 cams sounded OK but there are much better performing and sounding cams today. Call Comp Cams in Memphis; they have a new series of hydraulic cams called "Thumper" cams. They are designed to make a good sound and they work good on the street.
Genuine Black Widow? There's no such thing.... But it is a real original Black & White 150 with the V on the Vin. My purpose wasn't so much to have a Black Widow clone as much as just trying to follow the Stock Car Competition Guide put out by Chevrolet to help racers build their own race cars. It doesn't have a roll bar, has a rear seat, etc. But it does have all of the chassis / suspension / gas tank / radiator mods (ie, things that make it go faster and handle better) just like the Widows did. HRJ
Back in the early sixties, most of us ran that cam in the SBC. Mine was in a 301 in my 55 Chevy. I recall that the cam gave the engine a very distinctive "throb" (for lack of a better description) at 1000 RPM, where most of us set idle. Pure music: the purr of a 283FI with tappets set correctly at .008/.018 through steel tube headers and stock mufflers.
That would be an L-79 cam. Crane has the actual rights to make a real blueprint cam IE exact copy. Good street cam mild lope wide power band. But the 097 is what was also called a Duntov 30/30 if I recall. The L-79 is pretty close to the duntov only a hydraulic version. Actually it is also a Duntov grind. Either cam would be good in the 305. There are two reasons your 305 won't pull past 4800. One is that it is running an RV cam and the other is it isn't getting enough air with those wimpy heads. Granted your lower compression isn't helping matters much either. The cam switch will help it but it won't cure it. The only real cure is to either get some heads hat breath or work the ones that you have and boost the compression a bit. If you pull the heads to work them you can boost the compression a bit by using a thinner head gasket than stock. Never the less the 097 or the L-79 are both excellent choices for a streeter.
This thread is making me anxious. I've got Harrison's old '38 Deluxe that is currently running a 24 stud w/2 new 97's and dual exhaust. I've just about got a '40 rearend w/hydraulic brakes installed to be followed by the '40 spindles and hydraulics for the front. When this gets dialed in (meaning able to stop like a hydraulic equipt early Ford should) next up is a swap to a 301 and a '39 trans that will round out what a 18-20 y.o. kid with a gas station job in about 1960 would build. I've managed to find a NOS 097 cam and lifters for the 301 and a correctly restored Rochester 4bbl and intake to round out the package. I'm planning to act (as close as possible) the way I did back in 1960 (the year I got my license) until I get my first ticket. At that point I'll evaluate if the cost of a ticket at today's rate is anything like my memory of a 1960 one and worth the obvious elevated cost. Read the report here first. Frank
I think the 30/30 was a more radical cam designed for the 327, different from the older / milder 097 cam.
My '61 283 had a 30-30 cam in it back in '66... it SOUNDED so hot that I couldn't get 396Vettes to race me...
My old 65 Vette had the 30-30 factory injection motor , it would turn 8 grand with the 4:56 rear and had a lope at 1000 rpm idle.
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