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Drag raced tonight... fun! (updated with video!)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by modelacitizen, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. Edelbrocks are built on a mass scale without much quality control.
    They do what they intend to do. They start and idle and drive. If you want performance and quick times, go with a Holley. Just look around at the drag strip and see what carb is number one. It isn't Edelbrock, thats for sure. They have a non adjustable vacuume door for the secondaries and thats the problem. Even a Qjet is 100X better. I have at least 60 carbs of all makes, rebuild every inch of most and have tuned dual quads, tri-powers ect for the best performance by drilling idle air bleeds, changing the fuel slots, drilling the butterflies, modifying pretty much every part of the circuits on most carbs and Edelbrocks are just plain flat liners. I don't mess with them any more. Heres another video of the holley on my 400 and how responsive it is. I bolted it on about 10 years ago and havent needed to touch it. On the wide band O2 sensor, it reads just a bit lean at 13.1-13.2 at full open throttle. 12.5 is typically the best for all out power. Don't forget, this is with an 800 DP and a 400 with non ported heads. The wide band O2 sensors are the best tuning aid to come about for us racers/tuners etc.
    http://www.youtube.com/sixt8bird#p/a/u/1/Xuq-3a0AHEU
     
  2. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,334

    brandon
    Member

    One other thing...check to make sure it is getting full throttle.
     
  3. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 877

    modelacitizen
    Member

    That's really cool. I had OT turbo cars with widebands and tossed around the idea of tuning my Pontiac with one. But here's a stupid question... with dual exhaust, do I need 2 widebands? Does one bank of cylinders run leaner than the other? Also, who makes a good converter? B&M? Once again I thank everyone for their advice.
     
  4. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,334

    brandon
    Member

    Me personally, I'd change Carb before converter. If you can try and borrow one, a 750 vacuum secondary might be the ticket....the lack of stall might actually be helping you from blowing the tires off the line..lol
     
  5. grm61
    Joined: Oct 19, 2009
    Posts: 179

    grm61
    Member
    from Washington

    Congratulations:) Pretty good return on your investment to get your ETs down;)

    Couple things, see if you can load it harder with the brake, be more agresive on your launch, You're losing. time 1/2 way through first gear...launch, carb, timing...You have another second in there for little to no investment.

    Make sure the car is getting full throttle.

    It sounds like the secondaries on the carb are opening late.

    Play with the timing....it does seem overly soft on the bottom.

    Would be interesting to see what a 650 or 750 Holley double pumper would do...Know where you can borrow one to try??. I'll bet that would wake that motor up in a big way.

    Good Job and cool car, thanks for the vid that was fun to watch.

    Greg
     
  6. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    Member
    from Indiana

    If or when you do decide on purchasing a torque converter you will have many choices. Make sure you inquire if the converters rated stall is "foot brake stall" or "flash stall". As mentioned there many brands to chose from. Over the years I have used Turbo Action, A1, Coan, and B&M. All of them worked well but I have always had the best results with Turbo Action. Started using them in 1970's and still run one in my 57.

    I know that a 4 speed is tough to beat for the fun factor but when you have a hi perf t/c that's matched for your combination/car ....well, its a beautiful thing.

    Eddie
     
  7. LZ
    Joined: Sep 9, 2007
    Posts: 618

    LZ
    Member

    Hi Model A me again:
    You have had good people on here giving you thoughts.
    Here's some more.
    My friend has a shop and your story is just the same as those coming in over the years.
    Just putting a Holley on it or changing the converter will not necessarily give you results you want.
    How much money and time do you have and what results are you looking for???
    By the little to go on and looking at you vids. It can be summarized you dont have a lot of Cam in it and shes a bit lean. Also you, I think said there are 2.75's in it??
    An 8 inch is a decent rear but a posi and gears get pricy - limited..
    The car is asking for some more gear. Is this street driven?? Turbo 350 or 400?
    Fix the obvious before moving on. The powertrain and car need to match up then it is what it is.. I would be thinking shift kit way before a converter but thats me.
    Going by a couple things you mentioned:

    • How do your plugs look
    • Compression
    • Oil Pressure and water Temperatures
    • Anything done to rods, Bolts? Important if you start spinning her
    • Is it spinning? Mark a stripe, Have someone take a Tire video on launch.
    • Saw several 8 inch rears at your NJ craigslist
    Will PM you my phone number. Call if you want. Glad to talk with you.
    My phone is off during work hours.
    Good looking car bud
    see ya
    Luke
     
  8. Moloko
    Joined: Dec 14, 2005
    Posts: 726

    Moloko
    Member

    Finally got a chance to log on. Have had a busy weekend. Nice to meet you at the drags Friday.

    Here is a video of his car vs. my girlfriends Chevette. Yes, you read that right.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGvg5Dcigzk

    I'll upload the other vids I took of your car as soon as I get a free second.
     
  9. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    Member
    from Indiana

    LZ
    Luke, I don't know you but I gotta tell you, the time you have put into thoughts, suggestions and advice to ModelACitizen and I'm sure others as well is great to say the least. Your an alright guy Luke.

    Eddie
     
  10. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 877

    modelacitizen
    Member

    Haha this thread is out of control. At this point I think I need to actually write down a list of all the things you guys have mentioned. My head is spinning. thanks again!
    ... and Moloko it was great meeting you guys!!! That Chevette is killer!! haha
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  11. SLCK64
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 493

    SLCK64
    Member

    That doesnt look fun lol, but as long as she gets a kick out of it, its all good!!

    But to ModelAcitizen, I think Id work on trying to get that thing to launch a lil harder. She loves that top end tho!! Thing scoots when ya get her rollling!!
     
  12. LZ
    Joined: Sep 9, 2007
    Posts: 618

    LZ
    Member

    Eddie:
    Well.....thank you:eek: Feels good if you can offer somebody some thoughts.
    Its a short help. Its so hard to write whats on the brain
    This dude is what we need more of. Get the car out there and flog it. I am no proponent of Bracket racing but it is a great equalizer.
    If we each can just get one other person to do this think of how many more we would have at the track. We need to stick together.
    We do the club racing now at our local track. No money involved just good people and it grows a little each year. Fun watching the Son unit learn. You should do this at your local track. Will PM you.
    thanks
    Luke
     
  13. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 877

    modelacitizen
    Member

    I honestly don't know why more people don't do what I'm doing. It seems like a no brainer. My car almost always get's the most attention when I'm that track (except fo the bone stock Chevette haha) and I'm just running in the middle of the pack as far as et and speed go. One thing's for sure... I think I'm having the most fun. I've actually laughed out loud in the car going down the track. Run a 14, run a 15 who cares?! You're drag racing in a hot rod!! Thanks again everyone! Gonna go back in couple weeks and see if I can get a 13.3 out of it. I think I need to play with my timing a little bit and work on my driving some more.
     
  14. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,187

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    Good for you! There is still more there yet too.

     
  15. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 877

    modelacitizen
    Member

    I've been really frustrated with the weather. First it's too hot, (track actually closed due to temps) then there's rain... I haven't been able to get back to the track for 2 weeks. Looks like it might happen this week though. I've had some time to fiddle with the car. I recurved the distributor and rejetted the carb. Seat of the pants tells me it made a positive difference. Main question I have is this though- I had some other tires and wheels in my garage so I mounted some 225/55's on a light weight 17x8 rim. my old setup was 235/75 15x7's effectively changing my gearing from 2.79 to 3.02. How do you guys think this will compare? Various calculators tell me I'll lose about 1-2mph up top but I might pickup a tenth. (if I don't spin like crazy). Gimme your estimates... I'm hoping to see 13.3 at around 103-104... :confused:
     
  16. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 877

    modelacitizen
    Member

    Ugh I finally get to the track last night and I failed tech. It's really frustrating because they let me race 2x before with no problems. And my car hasn't changed or gone a lot faster. But this time they really picked it over. It's a lot of little stuff with the battery/fuel lines/bulkhead/cutoff switch etc. I should be able to get it wrapped up by next weekend but I really hope that's the end of it. I don't understand the inconsistency in the tech inspections. Especially because it's the same guy every time. :(
     
  17. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,334

    brandon
    Member

    I had the same tech guy look at mine Thursday....he's teched the car in probably 6 times, and probably every other time, he looks at it pretty hard. Once you get the little stuff fixed, tech wont be so intimidating .....lol. also don't forget about the rubber valve stems
     
  18. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,749

    sdluck
    Member

    Many moons ago we used to install vega converter to get a cheap higher stall speed converter.
     
  19. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 877

    modelacitizen
    Member

    I know safety comes first. It's just a bummer cause it takes me an hour to drive to the track. I just hope next time I'm in the clear.
     
  20. LZ
    Joined: Sep 9, 2007
    Posts: 618

    LZ
    Member

    Dude:
    The fact you passed tech and now there are issues is not even a little bit surprising.
    At your speed there are very minor things. Dont be discouraged they are only looking out for your benefit and there insurance.
    Please just go with flow, to much fun. Dont be surprised if a bug was put in someones ear.
    Just fix it and let her eat.
    I will pm you a link for a rule book pdf. Best to have with you. Wink , wink

    have fun
    Luke
     
  21. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 877

    modelacitizen
    Member

    Thanks so much dude
     
  22. 35hotrod
    Joined: Dec 7, 2008
    Posts: 81

    35hotrod
    Member
    from Duvall, WA

    Hey Model A, great thread! You're getting good advice from some great guys, what it's all about. You've inspired me to get my '35 to the track and see what that baby will do. Good luck at tech, keep us posted. I'm subscribed:D
     
  23. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 877

    modelacitizen
    Member

    Busted my butt over the weekend and got all the tech stuff taken care of. I remade all my fuel lines to get down under the limit of 12" of rubber. I put a better battery tie down in. I installed an aluminum bulkhead between the trunk and passenger compartment. I replaced my rubber fuel cell vent line with a steel one. And installed a legit cutoff switch. Now it looks like a real race car. :rolleyes:
    So I went to the track tonight and made it through tech with no problems. Yay. Long story short, the car performed most admirably. I ran a best of 13.07@108. The car was in the 13.1/13.2 range all night. Needless to say I was happy.
    So here's a list of changes. I recurved the distributor because I found out my cheap chinese HEI was only giving me 10* centrifugal advance. I bought a bunch of different weights and springs and did some filing and and adjusting and I think I've got it pretty good. I'm sure it's not perfect but oh well.
    I put new plugs in gapped to 40. 160* thermostat. I put a bigger air cleaner on it. And probably the most advantageous change I made was throwing some other wheels and tires on it that I had laying around. They are aluminum rims from a Nissan with some cruddy all season radials. BUT... they are a full two inches shorter than my other tires. This allowed me to finally pick up a 2.28 60'. I'm definitely spinning these tires though. I deflated them to about 18lbs but I'm not sure it made a difference. I think they are a tad narrower than my other ones. But this time, leaving the tree, the car was getting a little loose. :)
    At the track I advanced the timing a little and swapped metering rods a couple times and nothing really dramatic happened. I think the biggest change was uncapping my exhaust. Unfortunately I didn't keep records of the changes I was making through the night. I just wanted to keep racing. But I'm definitely on the right track. I think if I had some wider tires on there I could get my 60' down to a flat 2.2 and I'd bring home a 12.99. That would be pretty sweet. I think the key is still more seat time.
    I didn't change my launch too much run to run. I actually seemed to perform best just coming off idle and matting it. It allowed the converter to flash just a little and then I'd spin that right rear tire quite a bit. haha Bringing the rpm up against the converter is pretty fruitless. The car just lugs and chugs. Most of my 60' times were still in the low 2.3 area. I only got two 2.2x's. And honestly I'm not sure how I got that 13.07. Maybe that lane was a little stickier on that run...
    I also found the limit of the cam. It pretty much falls on its face around 5500rpm. And with the smaller tires on there, I'm really pushing it. Keep in mind I still have that 2.79 open gear in there so with my th400 I'm only making the first to second shift and that's it. haha
    Anyway thanks for everyone's advice. It definitely helped and it looks like my 12.9 pass is right around the corner. woohooo
    [​IMG]
     
  24. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,749

    sdluck
    Member

    Radials usually like higher tire pressure.
     
  25. You should get in the 12's easy. With that 60' time, a little suspension tweaking to knock that down to 2.0 and your there. Good luck and keep having fun. If you take it too too seriously that's when the money pit starts.
     
  26. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 877

    modelacitizen
    Member

    What kinda mods are we talking about? Do I need to drop some leaves out to soften it up? Thats about the only thing I can think of...
    I'd also be interested to know how some higher octane fuel would effect it. Right now I just run 93. I gave up on 'octane boosters'. This was a 10.25:1 engine when new... probably little less now due to re machined valve seats. Think I'd see a little gain by running 2 gallons of 100 and 8 gallons of 93???
     
  27. Yep I'd try one or two less leafs for more squat off the line and better hook-up. Keep in mind that you still want to this to be a driver so I think maybe one leaf and go from there.
     
  28. Bad Banana
    Joined: Jun 20, 2008
    Posts: 833

    Bad Banana
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    108 mph is low 12s if you hook it. All the ET is in the first few feet. Most ET gain will be improving the launch. Can you move some ballast back to the rear of the car?
     
  29. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,334

    brandon
    Member

    Bolt in 50 or so pounds at the farthest spot back you can get....might add some to it as you go....but bolt it down or add a bolted in weight box ....or a steel tool box...lol. you'll be deep in the 12's before you know it
     
  30. R Frederick
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 2,658

    R Frederick
    Member
    from illinois

    You shouldn't have any problem running into the 12's. I just went drag racing for the first time last weekend in my roadster. It ran close to 14 in the 1/4 all day (much like your first day), but my car has a little 305 smog motor with a stock 350 turbo trans. The rear gear is 3:50, and my 60' time was in the low 2 seconds. My car is 2,400 lbs, so a lot of things are very similar to your car except your engine should have much more HP. If you can get that engine running in the higher RPM's, you should be clicking off some good times.:D
     

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