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Drag raced tonight... fun! (updated with video!)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by modelacitizen, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    from Indiana

    I've got a smile on my face just reading your post! I kid you not.....
    13.56 at 105 !! That's great!
    I know you gotta be stoked! Good luck sleeping tonight!:D


  2. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 878


    Thanks dude. Here's my slip. I'll have a video or two to post up soon.
  3. AAFD
    Joined: Apr 13, 2010
    Posts: 585

    from US of A

    Woohoo!, now it's time to go after the 12's! Maybe some more seat time will get your there as is, but a Holley carb or a set of gears will put you there indefinitely. Before too long you're going to be hooked and hunting for the 11's.:D
  4. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 10,367

    from Burton, MI

    13.56!!!! Awesome. I think I hear something knockin at the door....nevermind. It's just a 12 sec et. Congrats!
  5. Lucky3
    Joined: Dec 9, 2009
    Posts: 652


    He's addicted now.......Drag Racing is a baaaad drug !
  6. There is something to be said for ringing out what you have first, and then making well thought-out changes one by one, without throwing dollars at it. The feeling of accomplishment comes one tenth of a second at a time. Looks like you're on the right track. Keep having fun.
    I nursed my car from 15.2 to 13.04 without major changes and still on street tires. It took a few years, but it was rewarding.
  7. ScottV
    Joined: Jul 18, 2009
    Posts: 818


    You do realized now that you are addicted ... and it's worse than crack !!! :p
  8. TexasHardcore
    Joined: May 30, 2003
    Posts: 4,936

    from Austin-ish

    I knew you could get 13's out of it! But damn 13.5's! 12's is right around the corner and will be easy. But then it gets harder & harder. Pretty soon you'll want single digits!
  9. Bad Banana
    Joined: Jun 20, 2008
    Posts: 834

    Bad Banana

    Reaction time has absolutely nothing to do the 60' times. You can sit at the starting line for 5 minutes and your 60' time with still be the same as it would if you left just as the green came on. The reaction times stops just as the ET clock starts. They are timed completely independent.
  10. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 878


    Here's a vid. This was a 13.6 @105. I just noticed that I only rev to about 1000rpm at the launch. I guess it's more chugging not revving. LOL I suppose my converter is too tight... if I rev up much more than that it wants to push through the brakes. Hmmmmm
  11. Model A John
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 1,771

    Model A John
    from wichita ks

    Just watched your video. Looks like a blast!
  12. Boones
    Joined: Mar 4, 2001
    Posts: 9,692

    from Kent, Wa
    1. Northwest HAMBers

    you need to footbrake the car alittle more, push the brake hard (or pump it alittle). you are coming off the light like a stop light. but the foot on the brake and get the RPM up some (try 1500 and maybe alittle more if you brakes will hold. that will get the car sprung a little and more launch. you should spin the tires them some.... looks like fun..
  13. BadgeZ28
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,142

    from Oregon

    Congrats on getting solidly into the 13's. You need to pay more attention to staging the car. Slowly roll in till the first light comes on. Stop. With foot on brake, very slowly creep until the second light just comes on. Stand on the brakes bring up the rpm. As we all know from the 60 foot time the car is lazy until it gets some rpms. You might try seeing how far you can get the rpms up before the car starts sliding forward. You can do that before you go to the track next time.
  14. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,362


    Fully understand still have to move out thru the beams (same way you can roll on the last yellow, and not go red)....if it doesn't move enough to trip the beams, your light and 60' will be off. Just saying, I stage light, leave on third, and go from there:D. But back when I started running this car, when it spun, it didnt my coupe reacts nothing like any door car I have raced.....(a & g body gms, earlybig body gms, and a&b body mopars )
  15. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 878


    Brandon - how on earth did you get a 1.8 60' with a 2.79 gear? COnverter? foot brake??? ... you're my hero
  16. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    from Indiana

    Yep, what he said.
    Judging by your mph I reckon your car has some 12 sec. times in her when you can upgrade your gears and possibly torque converter. But for now heed BadgeZ28's advice. The premise of a tenth off 60ft = 2 tenths overall is very real. With your car running 13.50's with a 2.40 60ft....well, you can do the math on what a 2.00 60ft could do for you. You have got a fun kind of a hot rod to make major gains on with a relatively low-cost approach.
    Ya know I've been running 12's and 13's at the track since the 1970's and its still a rush to me. My friends have always told me it doesn't take much to make me happy......whatever, but to have a good runnin' old car that you love and can run 12's-13's and drive on the street is something I'll never tire of. I envy where your at right now.:)
    Cool video too!

  17. 69fury
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,419


    not quite true. If you shallow stage by just barely turning on the second light, and then you launch the exact same way as when you stage normally, you will have covered slightly more distance before uncovering the staging beam/starting the clock- this action alone will cause the reaction time to be longer-

    ADDITIONALLY; since you have been moving the car for a bit more before the clocks even start, you have effectively given the car a running start and that affects your 60' times.

    small gains but they show up on the slip. and sometimes on the win light, too.

    If you think it's only gonna give a hundredth, tell that to the guy that just ran a 12.008

    To the OP- Great Job! I'd fine tune every thing you've got- keep the carb if you want but tune it in sharp- tune up that timing/ignition.

    Remember- if you're gonna spend on better tires- taller tires also add to your contact patch

    -so get stickier tires in that same 29 diameter, add width if you can, then find a gear to make that tire diameter put you through the lights at the top of 3rd gear.

  18. chop it ,add hood ,remove visor.....slippery that brick up ..aerodynamics
  19. Lost Creep
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 92

    Lost Creep
    from Indiana

    Which is why racers who shallow stage leave on a different part of the tree...
    and their r/t's are spectacular. Bottom line is whether you cut a good light or a bad light(reaction-wise) it doesn't effect your 60' ET.

    I think alot of this debate could have been simplified if Brandon would have just stated the obvious concerning 60ft times, spinning= bad time card - hooking= good time card :)
    If you blow the tires off, all the time card numbers kinda go to heck with possible exception of mph. Which is why you may see so many time cards thrown away and layin' on the ground in the pits.

    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
  20. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,362


    Give it time....with little money spent, you will be in the 12's.....switch to a Holley Carb and you'll probably be surprised how much you may pick up. And look for a cheap pair of slicks...just watch on the sizes, some aren't even close to what they are gotta finish getting ready to head to the track:D

    Forgot....depending on track, slicks might require long studs and a drive shaft loop...
  21. LZ
    Joined: Sep 9, 2007
    Posts: 618


    Model A:
    Thanks for the Utube. Friggen cool.
    Dont take this post wrongly but just some info for your dissemination.
    Just a few notes to remember on your set up and outing.

    1. Think of improving your setup and what you have. Your tight for money also, so new gears and cam just are not in the horizon. Its OK. We are just bracket racing so a good time is first and consistency second.
    2. Think of the racers around you. Make sure your ride is good, As in take car of any leaks, try to run just water and dump the anti freeze, Tires good holding air etc. etc. It absolutely sucks if your going to run somebody that wont even take the time to Brake clean a drip or if something falls off the car, etc.. Keep an eye on hoses, connections etc..
    3. Think about improving what you have. Spinning kills ET and makes for inconsistency. Fix this first. Listening to your video you have a shift kit in your future. Cheap upgrade . Your tranny will thank you and so will your times. You have to manually shift. A good shifter and shift light are your friends. You dont want to hit reverse on run. Keep an eye on your fluid and smell. Coming up against the converter is not a good thing with your set up IMO. You are heating up the fluid and not taking advantage of the Torque multiplication. Just try footbraking with a higher idle. Be consistent on staging RPM, heat depth of stage. These all effect your RT and ET.A tranny temp gauge is cheap and good for your ET estimating. If you go between the idle ports and low speed slots theirs issues. But thats another story.
    4. Bottom line is that you just want a safe - fun ride, and disrupting the race or hurting your self are prime things to think first. There is lots of time to try things to get better time. So what a rice goes 8 seconds. It will never be as cool as yours. Just get consistent and cut a light. If you have not yet. Just sayin. Those taildraggers have a habit of dragging water to the line. You have right idea to drive around water. I make my Son do a weak burn out, not needed with tire and power he has. Whats the sense of smoking money away??!!
    5. Think about what your running and be equipped to handle it. Follow sanctioning rules. Its easier to make a car go from 14 to 13 then 13 to 12 etc..For example my Sons car could go faster but everything comes into play, Cage, Frame, Rear, Brakes etc,etc... FYI its a mild 302 -C4, 8inch rear. But if we go any faster things come into play that I am not going to spend the money on. Its fun as is. Might as well move on and go faster with something safer and easier to work on.
    6. Couple tips...
      1. Keep fire extinguisher in car. Have little clip board to keep your slips at reach and not lost. Jog down notes on each slip after run. You wont forget and can go back for ref. Also talks to you about the car.
      2. Look over car when ever possible. Make habit of before leave driveway and before leave pit checkout routine. Just as important on a 13 second ride to a 6 second ride. Just a quick look underneath can say things to you.
      3. Try not to hold up next lane just as you try not to sit at line waiting for the others antics. Courtesy stage.
      4. Keep well stocked First aid in pit.
    Hope this is not condescending, not meant to be. Your having fun thats the main thing. Now keep an eye on your car and pick at it.
    This was very condensed. Just hitting tip of iceberg.
    You would be a prime candidate for out club racing night.
    Best to ya
  22. Stock Racer
    Joined: Feb 28, 2010
    Posts: 999

    Stock Racer

    Congrats on the 13.56! Watching the video, that car has a ton of potential. As others have said, stage as shallow as possible and try to get the RPM up a little if you can. If you have not yet put the 27 tall tires on there, do so. That will help a bunch judging from the vid.

    As for kinda forgetting to shift, seat time will get you comfortable with manual shifting. Try to find a ratchet shifter at a swap meet or craigslist. Might even find one on Epay.

    Thanks for keeping us updated.
  23. Congrats, blew past my 13.7@102 prediction. In that vid did you floor and at let off and then get back on it? When you start rolling the rpms are low, like you let off of the motor is bogged down.

    you probably don't want to change anything, but if it were my car I'd run more converter. For racing you run more converter to start out in a better part of your power band. When you shift the rpms drop of course. With a bigger converter they won't drop so much. I've run 3200 up to 5500 stalls over the years.

    Looks like you'd run a 12.8@106 some day. Good luck.
  24. I have been into Pontiacs for over 30 years and drive a 1968 Firebird that weighs in at 3810 lbs. with me in it. I pull a 1.60 60ft with a stock $999 400 built back in 1991. The heads are non ported and all that is done is a Street dominator intake, 800 Holley Dbl pumper, and a cam basically like the Summit 2802. You would love this cam!!!!! The 2801 is like the 086 which is a basic Pontiac cam grind!!! Pontiacs love bigger cams and carbs more than you would think compared to a small block Chervy.. Check out Jim Butler performace and casll him up. He is a wealth of knowledge and will talk your ear off. The heads I have are pretty much like yours but #16s. I run a 3,000 stall and 3:73 gears.
    On pump gas, I do 12.5s at 105s all day long. I added a 150 shot of nitrous and even with the 43 year old valves I pull a 11.75 second 1/4 time.
    As far as changing gears, this will actually help with your traction as the gears get you moving faster out of the hole. I read about this years ago and it didn't make sense but after I changed my gears from 2:78 to 3:73s my traction is way better!! So I believe what these racing books say about this. With the 2.78s, I would do nasty 200ft long burnouts without a sign of hooking up.
    You should be able to be in the 11s without much work. Cam and intake and carb, a different gear change like 3.42s would be killer in your light car. I'd wait till you change the gears before changing the stall. Also a set of MT ET drag radials would help out alot.
    You have to love the torque of Pontiacs.
    Also run a 160 stat. Its good for 1/10th of a second over a 185 degree stat. Shaving 100 lbs is going to save 1/10 also. To me, I like having a fast car with full interior and heat etc. I see guys remove all their interior, heater core etc and still are slower than me. I like the creature comforts and to go fast. My Convertible Firebird pulled 2.0 0-60 ft times with a 2.78 non posi but a very loose front suspension. There is no reason that you shouldnt be able to shave at least .4 off your ET just by getting out of the hole faster with better traction. Also the Edelbrock carbs suck bigtime on Pontiacs. Get on the Pontiac Forums and theres like 1 out of 50 that like them and the 1 doesn't drive them hard.
    Heres a little video that shows my car with the 400. My car is in this movie . It starts about a minute before my car is in it. At 20 mph, if I floor it, I fry tires on the street and thats with great traction at the track and drag radials. Its the most fun car I have ever driven.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
  25. I am completely with LZ on his advise, especially number 3. With the gearing you are running,I would try to come off at an idle to let the converter flash up (torque multiplication). By power braking it the way you are, the engine is "lugging" until it reaches it's power band. When I ran my '66 GTA back in the day, it would run 15.2 when I power-braked the engine and 15.0 when I came off at an idle.
    It's worth a try.
  26. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 878


    Thanks again guys for all the advice. LZ- I will definitely keep all that in mind. I actually do try to take very good care of the car and make sure it's not leaking or anything. I try to be smart about racing and putting safety first. I actually already promised my dad that when I hit 12's I will put at least a 4 point bar in the car. Kinda funny since it will probably add 75lbs to it and put me back in the 13's haha.
    Actually no, my foot was on the floor the whole time. I really wish I could figure out why this engine doesn't seem to make much power down low. Everyone and their mom is telling me that this Pontiac motor should make enough power to fry the tires even with a tall gear. Not in my case. The cam is an Isky Mega but for the life of me I can't recall which profile it is and I know that is working against me. Any guesses just by listening to it??? The converter I bought was advertised as 2300 stall but it's obviously junk. I think it flashes to 1500 which is no better than stock right? It was a 'Boss Hog' converter I bought off ebay. That's probably my big problem right now. I actually did a little calculator work it's telling me I'm getting 30% converter slippage. Now I'm not real clear on what that means but I know that a decent converter should be under 10%? Maybe my next purchase should be a better converter...
  27. back off rear brakes
    cool fuel down
    fuel pressure?
    look at power robbing alt and w/p
    add velocty stack
    exhaust header length
    open exhaust should make it leaner
    sparkplug gap
    temp b4 run after?
    battery location

  28. On my car that had an Edelbrock carb on it, it was real sluggish off the line. When I installed a Holley DP, my friends actually thought I installed one of the many 455s I had. All I did was change the carb and what a difference. Ditch that Edelbrock!!
  29. modelacitizen
    Joined: Jun 24, 2006
    Posts: 878


    That's really amazing. It just seems so hard to believe. So many people are telling me to do just that... but Edelbrock has been around forever. They've gotta be doing something right. Right? Shouldn't it just be a matter of learning how to tune the carb correctly? Or is there some design engineered in the Holley that makes it inherently better for the Poncho?? What exactly makes it a better carb?? Thanks
  30. Bad Banana
    Joined: Jun 20, 2008
    Posts: 834

    Bad Banana

    Let me clarify for you. the reaction time is only the amount of time it takes you to roll out of the stage beam from the time the green light bulb comes on... Period. You are right that shallow staging vs deep staging will "give you a run at the ET clocks" and that will change your reaction time if you leave the same on the tree. However, some people still think that their ET is effected by their reaction time and this is incorrect. If you have ever watched NHRA Prostock qualifying on TV you will see these guys stage as shallow as they can and they may even sit there a while after the green comes on to make sure the rpms are where they want before they dump the clutch and their ET will still be the same as it would if they cut a prefect reaction time. However, their reaction time on that run will be terrible.

    Hope that clears it up. Not trying to slam anyone here but I have seen some folks on this site comment that they felt if they could get their reaction time better, they could get a better ET. Reality is that you can't. One has no bearing on the other. Just trying to help. :)

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