The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by modelacitizen, Jul 14, 2011.
Am I safe doing it without a manual valve body? should i lift off between shifts??
You can buy gears for an 8" from Jeg's that are the Jeg's brand (made by Richmond) for fairly cheap. I have a set of 3.55 that i took out of my car bc they were making some noise but it turned out that the guy that set the readend up didn't know what he was dooing and there was a gap between the pinion bearing and the pinion. I bought a set of Richmond 4.11 and went with a full aluminum spool, that was fun!!!
May have missed it, are you going through the traps in 2nd gear? I agree that manually shifting might help you eke out a 13.99 pass. You'd also find out what your true max mph is with the current combo too. If the automatic valve body in your trans is short shfiting, then you might find a few mph. Sounds like if you are 2600 raceweight you should have higher trap speeds.
I'd run a 4.11 + spool, you can find that stuff on racingjunk, craiglist, and yellowbullet too. Years ago I could pick up the phone and my buds all had their old Fox body Mustang parts just lying around. Then I'd try for 12.9.
If you are going almost a 2.4 60 ft and cannot even spin the tire you need more gear (or other work).
My OT truck (2006 TBSS) went 13.84@99 bone stock, and I personally have found over the years that a little tirespin is better than bogging of the line. I've gone over the years anywhere from 9.4 to 13.9 and my best 60 at the track is a 1.35.
No, the trans is in 3rd through the traps. It's shifting way short in both gears. (i didn't catch the rpm but it's probably shifting under 4000rpm) It's ridiculous going through the trap at 100mph at 3200 rpm. I might have been spinning a little bit but I think this is the problem - the 2.79 ratio and the 29" tire gives me absolutely nothing off the line. Combine that with the fact that I can only foot brake it up to about 1600-1800rpm and I'm not even near the cam's power band. Honestly I'm probably only spending about 1/3 of the time revving in the advertised power range. The car doesn't really bog or spin at the track. It just kinda rolls out... haha. On unprepped pavement it will spin a little. I also don't really know how good this converter is. It's a cheap "boss hog" converter I got off ebay that's advertised as being 2500 stall. It's probably good for a boat anchor. LOL Oh and I'd rather not put a spool in it. I'd like to be able to turn on occasion. haha
I wish you were closer, I have a 3.50 posi 8" chunk I would trade for a 3.00 or 2.79 chunk for my shoebox
seat time is a major deal with drag racing. The first few times you stage you don't really pay that much attention to the process. If you barely turn on the second light to fully stage you will get a bit better e.t. You have the miles per hour of a 13 second car, but you probably were in deep and the 60 foot is terrible. Take some air out of the right rear tire also. Have fun
Nothing like drag racing for an Adrenaline boost....
Well, it's been said a dozen times but gears are the key.
Won't hurt it a bit.....Hell no don't let off between shifts Spank that bitch
I think ya should try and get some sort of limited slip. DO NOT get a spool or mini spool, unsafe for the street plus youll sound stupid chirping your tires around every corner if you get those.
Ditch the edelbrock Carb....and get either some drag radials or some little slicks ( 26 or 28") might have to add a little ballast ......60' is everything on my coupe. If its off a couple numbers, it will make a 5 teen light , a bad 600light. You do not need a bunch of gear.....my coupe has went 12.30 with 2.79's & 275/60 et street radials.
Forgot....get comfortable in the car and get a routine going. Same burnout, same stage...( I like turn top bulb on ....clean it out in neutral ....put it in gear....pump the brakes up and bump in and flicker the bottom bulb til its on...) maybe get a shift light so you can pay attention to the pass. Get that stuff down then work on the driving on the other end....lol
Thanks for the advice.. 12.30's with a 2.79 wow what's your setup and where are you shifting?!
You need to get the 60 foot down plain and simple. If you can get it down to a 2.0 60 foot (should be stupid easy in a rwd IMO) you should easily have a mid 13 second ride without touching ANYTHING else. A 98 mph trap speed should honestly put you in the 13.0-13.3 range in a rwd car. Honestly, I was expecting you to say it had a banger in it with your times. I dont see why with a little tunning of the motor and a lower 60 foot why you wouldnt be in the 12's. I dont know if you have drag raced much but I will warn you it is VERY addicting. You will get to a point where you will do about anything for another tenth!
93 350 truck motor with vortec heads....440/420 lift summit cam, airgap intake, Msd ignition, 650 Holley double pumper....and a set of 1.6/1.5 roller rockers....350 turbo, 2000 b&m converter...triangulated 4 link....in a 28 coupe. Leave @ 1700 rpm...shift @ 5000 go thru @ 4000 in 3rd. Been running on the front 2bbl for the past 2 months....and has been 12.66@ 108. 60' is 1.80 on 2bbl.....1.73 on 4bbl. 8.0's in 1/8 (2bbl) 7.70 (4bbl)......run car every weekend somewhere...lol in footbrake & nobox......lots of fun
Lots of room to improve et wise.....a Carb change would get it in the low 12's
I think if you are that light, just manually shifting should get you down to a 13.7@102 I think.... just a feeling. A posi + 4.10 gear would get you into the 12's. I would maybe look for a cheap tach, and then keep track of your shift points. Plus getting and staying in your power band in 1st and 2nd will help you bigtime before the 1/8th - This is the part of the pass where you need to max the car out.
I agree with others that manually shifting will for sure put you in the 13's.
You can try shifting at 5000 rpm first pass, then try creeping up on 5500
on your second and third pass. You may not need to shift into 3rd gear w/your 29" tires.
You can also try shocking/flashing the converter by idling on the line, then stabbing it on the launch, but your car is light so I don't know if that would work as it sometimes does in a heavier car with more gear. You may be better off launching like you have...but if you do experiment it might be wise to try only one change per pass whether it be shift points or launch technique. Also lose the 30 lbs of stuff in your trunk. You should be getting some 13 second time slips now for sure.
After you've achieved 13's(and you will) then you can apply Stock Racers list of "cheap tricks" as he has listed some solid advice that should drop your ET even more. One thing he listed that you should try to do every pass for now is "shallow stage" - just get that 2nd bulb(stage) to flicker-on. This method of staging may or may not be the best for you regarding your reaction times but at this time your more concerned with ET. One last note - don't forget to let your opponent put his pre-stage light on before you put your "staged light" on. It's a courtesy for all.
Sorry for ramblin' on....but yes...it is a blast and I can tell how excited and happy you are.
BTW - don't forget, every tenth you shave off of your 60' could shave two tenths off your ET!
Thanks again for all the tips and tricks. I'm gonna go again tonight. Hopefully I'll hit 13's with just a little more seat time and shifting the trans myself. I decided that the first mod I'm going to make will be a purchase of Jim Hand's Pontiac book. Stupid that I don't have it already. I'm definitely addicted. That was fast! (the addiction, not my car)
I know a guy here locally that is running a free old set of soft compound dirt track tires on his truck when ever he drag races it and they are super soft and sticky!!!! You are correct on the 60' being everything, if you can shave 1/2 second off your 60' it equals out to a full second off of your ET. What ever you shave off the 60' time usually will double on the big end of your 1/4 mile time .... 1/4second lower 60'= 1/2 a second off ET....etc, etc.
I had an OT car (Gremlin) that weighed 2900lbs with driver, drove to the track on the OPEN 2.79 gears in my 8" and just outta sh!ts and giggles thought i would try running that way with the drag radials, it ran a best @ 13.75 @ 99mph coming thru the traps in 2nd gear at like 5800 RPM. Never did get to run it with the 4.11 gears and full spool and the drag radials, really wish i had though to see what it would have done.
Also, put your car on a diet, any weight you can remove from your car will end up in more power to weight. Taking weight off of your car is a lot easier than trying to gain 10-20HP with a $300 intake or a $400 carb. I learned that early on and every body laughed at me but when i shaved 200lbs off my car and added better tires it was like free horsepower, didn't cost me anything to lighten the car.
One thing to remember on a little coupe like this.....there is no over hang on the back. You can add a 100pounds over the rear, and probably pick up 2 tenths...lol. same goes foe leaving @ idle....it might try and unload the chassis......the spin. That was what I found out worked on my coupe vs. My other door cars. Light cars like his don't need a bunch of motor or gear, that will compound the launch issues....just make the engine package he has work more efficient .....and should be able to run in 2nd gear...lol
You do need a tach to confirm what your RPM is when stalled at the line. If it really is in the range you say, then that 2500 RPM stall converter is advertised at 2500 for a lot higher horsepower car.
He doesn't have a spin issue, adding weight will only slow things down with the present configuration.
What does your 60' time have to do with your reaction time?
Well I'd address the gearing at some point... TH400 first gear (2.48), 2.79 gear, and a 29" tire.
Have a 8" with 2:79 gear in my TT pickup. 283 with a 350 turbo and 28" tall tires on 15 x 10 wheels and it will not even try to spin leaving a stop sign ( or a sticky track ) with the stock converter. Put a 2500 stall in it and it leaves alot harder but I think it stalls closer to 3000 so now it runs at 230 degrees on the freeway. So it's coming back out so I can have it checked.
In a fenderless car with this set up what would be a good stall - gear combination? I was wanting to run at DOTD here in acouple of months but still need to get the seatbelts in to go play at the 1/8 mile track here.
( sorry for the hijack )
This is the big issue. But after reading through a lot of Brandon's posts, I'm completely confident I can get this car solidly in to the 13's without doing anything but changing my driving. I think my car is a little heavier than his too. Pontiac engine and th400 trans alone probably outweighs his setup by 50lbs. There are a few things I could do to easily shed 100lbs. Probably gonna take my passenger seat out. lol It's gonna be a while before I put slicks on it. I'm gonna try to get everything I can out of the current setup before I do anything drastic or spend more than 50$. haha
Actually, I like the way your going about all of this. Your trying to knock some ET off your car on a super tight budget and when its all said and done your gonna know your car better! Sometimes its more fun to do the little things on a budget than it is to just throw alot of money at it!
The enthusiasm you show will get you where you want to be.
Good luck to you and that very cool car you have!
It's cool man but I'm the wrong person to ask. I have a supposed 2500 stall in my car but I don't think it's right for my setup. My advice is just put your seatbelts in and go to the track. The car will kinda tell you what it wants. If there is one thing I've learned about hot rodding so far, it's that no two cars are identical and there are so many variables involved with drag racing that no matter what people tell you your car needs, you're not gonna know for sure until you get some seat time in. Just have fun!
And 'LostCreep' - Thanks man. I'm actually reall enjoying doing this the poor man's way. Masochism?? haha
Lost Creep nailed it. Go have fun and try all the cheap tricks first. It doesn't hurt nearly as bad if it doesn't work. I've spent a lot of money on my O/T NHRA Stocker. Some things work, some things don't. How would you like to buy an $800 torque converter that slows your car down 2 tenth's? been there done that. You play around a little and you'll be surprised what works and what doesn't. Look for parasitic drag on anything on the car. Switching to an electric water pump picked my car up a tenth. If you can find a smaller crank pulley this will have a similar effect and you can find pulleys for next to nothing.
As has been said, put the shorter tires on it and manual shift it and you'll definitely get into the 13's. Sneak up on things, if your going to manual shift it just move the shift point up 500 rpm at a time.
You definitely have a 12 second potential car. I subscribed so keep us posted. Remember, it's not how much you spend, it's how fast you go and how much you win.
If my reaction time is off, my 60' will be usually off a couple numbers. Usually meaning it spun a little....
Just got back kids. Thanks for all the tips. I tried to do as much as I could remember and it really paid off. I wrung out a 13.56 at 105.6 and that was still with 2.39 60'!! The biggest difference made was shifting the th400 manually. I had never done it at higher rpm so I was little nervous to try it but man did it make a difference. The advice you guys gave me about getting the rpm up really paid off. I only had to make my 1-2 shift. I made my shift at 5000 and went through the traps at 5400. FREAKING AWESOME. People kept asking me if it was a Powerglide. haha
I really didn't do anything else drastic to the car. I inflated THREE of the tires to 40lbs and left the right rear at about 25. LOL I had someone watch me and he said I did spin a little. I just can't feel it because the car leaves pretty soft and tracks really straight. Never tries to get out of shape. (unless the wind is blowing at the top end haha.) I also removed about 40lbs of stuff from the car. I left the passenger seat in. I had the headers uncapped.
So all in all I was very happy/excited. I told myself I'd be content getting a 13.99 so obviously I was elated. Man that Poncho pulls like a beast up top. I was gritting my teeth as I watched the tach climb over 5000 rpm and the traps still seemed so far off. But people kept telling me how great the car sounded on the big end. It didn't break up/miss/ping. It was really just perfect.
The first pass I made, I actually forgot that I left the tranny in low and I watched that tach climb over 5000 in first gear and I was like WTH!?! Then I kinda panicked and backed of the gas I finally pushed it in to drive and coasted through the finish. But when I got the time slip I knew it was on like donkey kong because even with missing the shift and backing off the gas I still ran a 14.7 @ 96
Kinda funny thing about shifting the auto manually. It takes a very gentle hand to keep in from going straight in to drive. (which I did twice- resulted in 13.8's @ 99)
So I'm not sure what's next. I'm just so elated. It's such a great feeling. Everyone at the track loves the car and it always puts smiles on faces. Although it didn't get as much attention as a certain twenty four horsepower Chevette I raced against. LOL
What great time. Thanks for everyone's help!! YOu really made a difference.
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