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Door Skin Advice/Help Needed

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SPDJNKY, May 23, 2013.

  1. I'm trying to finish up my drivers side door and need some advice. The door skin had multiple problems in the beginning. It was oil canning and had some high spots. Three quarters of the door has been straightened out by a combination of heat shrinking with a torch, hammer and dollie work with a wood mallet, and also a shrinking disk.
    The last section I worked on (the area to the right and bottom of center) I was chasing my tail. I assume because the repaired area's of the door skin is stiffened up and there is not much "give' left. I would push the oil can around the more I worked the area with the torch. I think maybe I was working too big of an area at a time. Like I said three quarters of the skin if stiffened up and has a good arch to it.
    Well I am down to the last section of the door and am trying to figure out which way to go at it. It's the bottom right corner that has been circled with a sharpie. When I push on it there is no oil canning or popping but it's soft and a little shallow. I want to stiffen it up a bit more so the skim coat has a better base.
    What would you experienced guys do with the last corner so I am not chasing my tail again?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    IMO , if it were me I'd cut the skin off from the belt line down , re- skin and be done. Skins are available . Just skinned a set of 39 ford truck doors for buddy. Saves a lot of time and headache .
     
  3. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    I'd drop back and run my hand over the whole panel- check for any high metal that may still be stretched. If you find any high areas around that low/floppy area, shrink those before you work the circled area. If you still find the circled area low and loose you could bump that area alittle high with a dolly, and tighten it up with a shrinking disc and a wet rag. Afterwards, I'd run the disc over the whole skin to loosen up any tight areas, grind it with a 7'' 24 grit closed coat disc, and slime coat the skin.

    " The ice cream truck in his neighborhood plays Helter-Skelter "
     
  4. Dodge Brother
    Joined: Apr 12, 2009
    Posts: 130

    Dodge Brother
    Member

    I use my hand but also a flexible straight edge (aluminum yard stick) to determine if panel shape. If the area in question is low and soft, it probably needs a little "on dolly" hammer work to stretch the area, raise it and give it some strength.
    Trevor
     

  5. Thanks guys. I'll give it a go with the dollies and knock it back down with a grinder. Sounds like I might have been over thinking it.
     
  6. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 9,174

    manyolcars

  7. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,454

    oj
    Member

    When i see stuff like this with guys chasing an oilcan around and using heat shrinking etc i get nervous because metal has to be stretched before shrinking will fix it. Metal becomes stretched when it is in an accident. That door looks too good to be in an accident. Just because there is a lowcrown/highspot don't mean the metal is stretched, for instance if there is a high spot you need to get rid of by shrinking and you walk around to the other side of the same panel there will be a low spot so how do you get rid of it..stretch? So to fix the same problem you have two different techniques depending on which side of the panel you are looking at...if you are looking at the high spot you want to take metal away by shrinking, if you look at the other side then you want to add metal by shrinking.
    You might be chasing the oilcan because it is formed from shrinkage and you are trying to fix it by additional shrinking. Those doors should have a low crown to them to keep the metal tight, if you are shrinking then there is plenty of metal to pull from ad that is when it'll start the oilcanning.
    I may very well be wrong, i can't touch the metal from here.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  8. Put the door into the bed of your truck and take it to breakfast Saturday . It could be hungry. That way Bill or myself can help you figure out whats needed .

    If not , when repairing dents or accident damage you follow the first in last out rule . Make sure all the damaged metal is back in its place before attempting to shrink or stretch any part of the damaged panel . Stretched metal is identifiable after the damage causing impact and is usually a gouge or sharp point of contact . Many times oil canning can be caused by some unrepaired damage not being corrected . This could be the edge of a slight buckle not being driven back down or the not raiseing the damaged metal below the buckle back to its place .. In a flat or low crown panel such as this they can easily be overlooked . Almost all metal straightening should be done without a dolly . You will find that if you adopt this logic the work just becomes easier .
     
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  10. jeffgies
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 49

    jeffgies
    Member

    In a somewhat similar vein with a door skin, I always struggle in figuring out when metal needs to be stretched and when it needs to be shrunk. In particular, the circled area in the pic. I was welding up the bear claw installation in the jam area and I guess I put a little too much heat and the outside skin now has a bit of a valley. At the end of the job after the damage had already been done, I noticed that the outside was picking up some heat. I know that heat from welding causes shrinking, but this area wasn't welded directly. Welding up of the door lock hole was done after the valley had formed and was done extremely slowly...after smartening up. Any thoughts? Is this metal shrinkage or just plain warping? How does one know when to shrink and when to stretch?
     

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  11. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    How low is the area in the chalked outline? Can you get in behind it with a toe dolly, spoon or pry pick? If so, I'd try alittle off dolly work to raise up the low area, and return it to normal contour.

    As for the question of when to shrink/stretch.........shrinking is only resorted to when all of the high metal in the panel is returned to normal contour, and the panel still flexes out of shape. If you start to shrink an area of the panel that isn't really stretched, but only out of shape due to the panel not being correctly bumped back into alignment, you'll only make more work for yourself. This condition, known as a ''false stretch'' can really get out of hand if not correctly delt with.
    To bump out a panel correctly, bring down your high areas, raise up the lows, and only after you've done this, resort to shrinking, for those areas that won't return to normal contour.

    " Do not reach greedily for the Kool-Aid "
     
  12. jeffgies
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 49

    jeffgies
    Member

    The low area is a little less than 1/8" lower than the rest of the door skin. I can get nearly all the way behind the area, except where the window channel sits.
     
  13. sheesh
    Joined: Nov 13, 2011
    Posts: 32

    sheesh
    Member
    from canaduh

    the "skin" on the panel is locked by the edges, upper body line was damaged? looks like the bottom rib is slightly rolled in at the lower right corner, skin also looks to be touching and a little pulled over the shut pillar door frame. check all edges for correct shape and fitment, if these need correcting later skin will then be needing more work
     
  14. jeffgies
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 49

    jeffgies
    Member

    I think you're referring to the original poster's pictures of his door, not mine showing the green painted door, right?
     
  15. sheesh
    Joined: Nov 13, 2011
    Posts: 32

    sheesh
    Member
    from canaduh

    sorry yes the op (just hate filling threads with reposted pics :D)
     
  16. crazy_tonguezz
    Joined: May 16, 2013
    Posts: 375

    crazy_tonguezz
    Member
    from glendale

    a small bit of advice is to hammer and dolly gently , never feel like you have to strike the metal hard as hell , especially ontop of the metal dolly all your doing if you do is thining the metal and cause more problems. i wish i could stop by your shop and help , its easier for me to be there in person and feel the areas that need attention and show you how i handle them and oil can'n problems with out heat.
     
  17. jeffgies
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 49

    jeffgies
    Member

    That would be helpful. Thanks for advice. I wish there was a video or dummies guide for metal bumping. I know all about the theory of hammer on and off dolly, but nobody ever tells you how hard or soft, where to start hammering (right at the point where the valley starts, well inside,....), how much to move your dolly to the next spot, etc, etc
    Maybe it's time to do some utube searching
     
  18. crazy_tonguezz
    Joined: May 16, 2013
    Posts: 375

    crazy_tonguezz
    Member
    from glendale

    when you have a valley i work from the edge in kinda like in a spiral to the center / With the dolly in just a little more than the hammer and push up with the dolly and tap the outside , dont feel like you should have to get it in one pass, if it takes a few passes thats ok. moving the metal a little at a time is ok , just time and patience. listen to the consitance of the metal ping and timing, this might sound funny but i glare at the metal as i bump and i can focus and watch it move, somtimes i use a medium block with 150 grit to show me where i am , griding over and over isnt always good , tends to heat the metal and thins the metal more in the high spots. but its just how i how i have grown to do metal work. every tech will tell you a differnt way of doing it and some will say im dead wrong on how i do it. but over time you just develope what is right for you,
    Slow down to Speed up
     
  19. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    When I first started out doing body & fender repair, I was told to pratice on scrap fenders and doors. It was months before i was allowed to work on a real vehicle:D Each dent is alittle different in how they were formed, but most unlock by following a few basic steps. Leapfrog over a step, and you usually make more work for yourself;) Knowing the theory of metalwork is good, but it's actual pratice that becomes the teacher.
    I'd start at the lower end of that low area, pressing up with a dolly whyle tapping around the dent with a bumping hammer. Next move around the edge, again pressing up with the dolly whyle off dolly hammering. Lastly, go for the deepest area of the dent, that should have come up abit by all your previous hammer & dolly work. Try and avoid as much on dolly hits as you can, as this may stretch the metal more:(

    Pratice makes the master-
     
  20. crazy_tonguezz
    Joined: May 16, 2013
    Posts: 375

    crazy_tonguezz
    Member
    from glendale

    Three brown wooden handled hammer and the blue one next to it are my two favorite ones, and some of those dollys are just aluminum pieces from various core supports and rebars

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     

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  21. jeffgies
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 49

    jeffgies
    Member

    Thanks for everyone's help. It's been useful
     

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