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##Don't be frieghtened .. it's only the Oct. 2012 Banger Meet##

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Crazydaddyo, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. NORSON
    Joined: Jan 19, 2009
    Posts: 469

    NORSON
    Member

    A Buick banger has a good looking head (not cross flow), but the combustion chamber is in the block. The upper part of the bore is large and then steps down for the piston bore. It looks real small. See The enclosed pictures. I'm told that the block has three main bearings. I have a head but nothing else.
    Norm
     

    Attached Files:

  2. NORSON
    Joined: Jan 19, 2009
    Posts: 469

    NORSON
    Member

    A couple questions related to the buick. The cylinder bank bolts to the crank case. For the sake of "rules", is the crank case the "block"? Is the cylinder bank the "block"? Could you use one and fabricate the other? Norm
     
  3. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,982

    97
    Member

    I posted this back on the September Banger meet tonight... as that was where Brendan asked for it, but realise most Banger people will probably miss it, so here goes again .

    I have been trying to load this as an attachment but the site rejects it.

    I have converted this to a different type of file now and I think it will work by just copy and paste....
    Here goes,

    Most S.U. carburettors have three basic adjustments

    Mixture adjustment.
    This adjustment can take the form of a large hexagon nut on the jet holder itself as in carburettor types H and HS or simple screw adjustment as in carburettor types HD and HS8. Whatever the form of this adjustment, its function is to position the height of the fuel jet relative to the metering needle.

    Throttle adjusting screw.
    This screw functions exactly the same as the idle speed screw found on conventional carburettors. Acting against a stop, it holds the throttle valve open a set amount at engine idle.
    Fast idle screw.
    Situated on the linkage which interconnects the throttle valve and the cold start mechanism, this screw adjusts the increased idle speed needed when the engine is cold.



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    Before attempting to adjust any carburettors, make sure everything else which affect engine tuning. i.e., spark plugs, distributor, ignition timing and tappets should all be adjusted .
    Also check carburettor(s).
    The needle and seat must be seating properly . If there is any doubt as to the condition of the needle and seat it should be replaced .
    The fuel level in the bowl should be correct. Diagram No. 2 shows the correct float setting for carburettor types H and HD and Diagram No.3 shows those for types HS and HS8.
    The metering needle must be straight and must be fitted so that the shoulder on its shank is flush with the base of the piston (see Diagram No. 4).




    Piston Freedom

    Freedom for the piston to slide is essential. After being lifted to the top of its travel and then released it should fall smoothly onto the carburettor bridge with a distinct "click" when the jet is at its highest position.
    If it does not comply with this requirement, either the piston is sticking in its bore or the jet requires centering.
    A sticking piston can usually be freed by removing the suction chamber and piston and washing them in a suitable
    solvent. A small amount of light oil can be placed on the small diameter piston rod but never under any circumstances on the larger diameter grooved piston face. The jet is centred in carburettor types H, HS and HS8 by the following method.

    Disconnect the cold start mechanism and swing it to one side. On type HS8 carburettors disconnect the jet adjusting linkage.

    Mark the position of the jet. Remove the jet, the jet adjusting nut and the locking spring. (The jet does not have to be removed in HS8 types).

    Replace the jet adjusting nut without the spring and install the jet in its correct position according to the mark.

    Screw the jet adjusting nut up as far as it can go. (Types H and HS only).

    Remove the hydraulic damper from the suction chamber and loosen the jet holding nut until the jet holder is free to move.
    Push the piston down with a screwdriver at the same time holding the jet at its highest position.
    Tighten the jet holder nut and check that the piston falls onto the bridge with the distinct click.
    If not, steps 4 and 5 will have to be repeated.
    Replace the jet nut locking spring (types H and HS) and re-assemble the cold start mechanism or jet adjusting linkage as the case may be.
    Note: It is important that the jet is marked and kept in the same relative position during the process of centering and final assembly.

    Centering in carburettor for type HD :
    Disconnect the jet adjusting linkage.,Remove the float chamber, the jet and diaphragm assembly, and the jet housing. (Four screws).,Loosen the jet holder nut so that the jet holder is free to move.Install the jet and diaphragm assembly and push up the jet as far as it will go. Remove the damper from the suction chamber.
    Carry out steps 5, 6 and 7 as previously described for type H, HS and HS8 carburettors.
    Note: The jet and diaphragm must be kept in the same relative position during centering and final assembly.

    ADJUSTMENTS ON VEHICLE
    The engine should be run until normal operating temperature is reached before adjusting the carburettor.

    Single carburettor (all types)
    Disconnect the cold start cable if fitted or make sure that the switch of the auxiliary carburettor is in the "off" position.
    Screw the jet adjusting nut or screw so that the jet is flush with the carburettor bridge or, if this cannot be attained to its highest position.
    Turn down the jet nut or adjusting screw two full turns (Type HD two and a half turns).
    This is the basic mixture setting for the carburettor.

    Start the engine and adjust the throttle adjusting screw until the engine is idling at the speed required.
    Turn the jet adjusting nut or screw either up or down until the fastest and most even running is obtained. Turning the nut or screw upwards will weaken the mixture and vice versa. (It may be necessary to re-adjust the throttle adjusting screw during this process.)

    The mixture strength can readily be checked by lifting the piston approx. 1/32". Most carburettors have a lifting pin, but in some older designs a screw driver may be used.
    When the piston is lifted the engine speed should increase very slightly if the mixture is correct. A rich mixture will cause the engine speed to increase considerably while a lean mixture will cause an immediate decrease of speed usually accompanied by rough running.

    MULTIPLE CARBURETTORS

    Disconnect the cold start cable and linkage or make sure that the switch for the auxiliary carburettor is in the "off" position.
    Screw the jet adjusting nuts or screws on all carburettors so that the jet is flush with the carburettor bridge or,if this cannot be attained, to its highest position.
    Turn down the jet nuts or screws on all carburettors two full turns (Type HD two and a half turns).
    Slacken one of the clamp bolts on the throttle inter-connection shaft. Start the engine and adjust the throttle adjusting screw on each carburettor so the engine is idling speed is set as required.
    Check all the throttle valves are open an equal amount. To do this use a mechanics stethoscope or at a pinch a length of tube will do , one end held to the ear, the other placed in turn at the same place in mouth of each carburettor.
    Adjust the appropriate throttle valve screw until the amount of hiss is equal on all carburettors.
    Turn the jet adjusting nut or screw either up or down on each carburettor until the fastest and most even running of the engine is obtained. Turn the nut or screw upwards to weaken the mixture and vice versa.

    Check the mixture strength by lifting the piston approx. 1/32".
    If the mixture is correct on that carburettor the engine speed should increase very slightly.
    If the engine speeds up considerably, the mixture on that carburettor is too rich. If the speed decreases, the mixture is too lean.
    Repeat this operation on all carburettors.

    Tighten the clamp on the throttle interconnecting shaft.

    After the carburettors have been adjusted, connect the cold start cable so that it has approx. 1/16" free travel before it starts to move the jet lever. Pull out the control knob until the free travel is taken up and any further movement would move the jet lever. In this position adjust the fast idle screw to give an engine speed of approx. 1,000 R.P.M. Push the control cable right in and ensure that there is clearance between the fast idle screw and the throttle stop. If no clearance, the free travel of the cable must be reset.

    The final step is to fill the hydraulic damper to the correct level with S.A.E. 20 Oil.( ATF works OK )
    If the damper cap has a vent hole drilled through it, the correct oil level is ½" above the hollow piston rod.
    If there is no vent hole in the damper cap the correct level is ½" below the piston rod.
     
  4. K204DR
    Joined: Apr 5, 2008
    Posts: 98

    K204DR
    Member
    from Chatt TN

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    Heres a couple pics of the buick motor. it was setup as a powerplant for something. its not mine, not sure if I can get it or not. its on the wifes familys farm. the earliest I could even get it would be next summer. the car is already full!
     
  5. NORSON
    Joined: Jan 19, 2009
    Posts: 469

    NORSON
    Member

    Yep. That has the same head I have. I did see a complete motor a year ago and thought how tall it was. The rods must be a yard long. Norm
     
  6. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,522

    Carter
    Member

    Should have posted this here to begin with.

    I am going to run a Winfield SRBB downdraft on the model b banger in my 29 roadster. I did some searching and saw where some people had run then gravity feed, and some had used fuel pumps. Since it is a B engine, and I have a fuel pump for it, should I just go ahead and run the b pump?


    I have about 1.5" of fall in about 10"of fuel line from sediment bowl to carb inlet.
    Would the b pump pressure work for the Winfield?
     
  7. Yes and should be right pressure but you should check. It would probably work without the pump but I tried to keep mine at Min 1/2 tank with out.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  8. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    . The point is that the two head studs/nuts shown that are in the slots (one just aft of the distributor) need to be torqued using a crows foot wrench. The Dodge had 7/16 stud when new. But the threads were so stripped that I decided to drill and tap 1/2-13. Now I have 3/4 across the flats nuts. And a 3/4 open end doesn't really fit well in there. And it slips off the nut easily. So I decided to mill the nuts to 11/16. But I looked at my 11/16 crows foot and it was about 1/64th oversize. As were all my open end wrenches. I guess that makes it easy to get them on the nut. But it also makes it easy to round the nut and slip off. So I cut the nuts to .700. Now the 11/16 wrench fits nice and snug. The head is a joy to torque down and I am a happy guy. Thought it as interesting. This picture was taken when the 3/4 nuts were installed, before we found the leak.
     

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  9. Carter, Just Plain Bill...I've got a similar issue on my hands. Have a Winfield SR B that will be going on an A 'banger with a Winfield cast iron 6:1 head and 3/4 cam. The float and float bowl are stamped "G" for gravity feed...problem is, I'm not using a cowl tank. Plan is to use a 20-ish T tank behind the seat back and pressurize it with a '22 Caddy pump and '18 Dodge 0-4psi pressure gauge.

    Will the "G" float work with this setup or do I need to find a float designed for use with a pump? Anyone know the difference between the "gravity" and "fuel pump" floats?

    Gary
     
  10. Brendan1959
    Joined: Jun 26, 2008
    Posts: 330

    Brendan1959
    Member

    Thanks 97
    I had another go today I find the jets need to be out about 4 turns to get it to run OK. I will see how it starts cold tomorrow.
    Brendan
     
  11. NORSON
    Joined: Jan 19, 2009
    Posts: 469

    NORSON
    Member

    Found a distributor and angle drive at the Monroe swap meet. Any ideas on what it fits? Thought it might work off a generator???? Norm
     
  12. NORSON
    Joined: Jan 19, 2009
    Posts: 469

    NORSON
    Member

    Sorry forgot the picture. Norm
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,522

    Carter
    Member

    Thanks for this post. I hadn't done nearly enough reading yet on the Winfields, I guess. Never know there were 2 different floats. I don't remember seeing a G on mine when I had it apart, but I will have to open it back up to check.

    Dave
     
  14. The only concern i remember is that there is/was, I believe, a caution about using a float designed for a vacuum tank. I use the same float for both, most of the ones I have aren't marked. I use 2 to 2.75 lbs pressure. I also no longer use the little round chrome pressure regulator had them take a dump on me.
     
  15. Thanks Bill! I'll try to get some photos of the "G" stamping on the float and bowl...

    With my setup (3/4 cam & Winfield 6:1 "Yellow Head") do you think the SR B will be sufficient? I thought I had remembered seeing that a B can be rejetted to BB specs, but have no idea how that's done.

    Gary
     
  16. There is a difference in the jet sizes but there also a corresponding difference in the throttle bodies. The b float chambers are interchangeable as are all others in an alphabetical size, a to aa, b to bb, c to cc but the jets are different sizes. This was a marketing feature, a dealer needed to just stock the a or b or c float chambers and just change jet sizes to go with the larger throttle body size. (b is 1.5, bb is 1.625). I don't think some were very honest as I have found most bb's to have b jets.
    Your combination should work well on the street, b throttle bore area is 1.76 while a stromberg 81 area is 1.035.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  17. Tried out those close ratio gears this weekend at Prescott. I normally run my flattie powered 24T at Prescott in 2nd gear - 3.54 rear end, '39 box, 5.50 x 16 tyres.

    With the Tourer - 3.27 rear end and 4.75 x 19 tyres I had to change in to top before reaching the hairpins. Crashing back down was none to elegant!

    Best time in the V8 powered modified 61.63, highest speed at the 'bridge' (pretty much a straight charge from the line) 51mph.

    Best time in the Tourer - 71.01, highest speed at the 'bridge' 44mph. So comparing me, with me - none too shabby...

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Not sure if I had posted this but for anyone interested in vintage Mallory dual point distributors this might be interesting if you can read it. Actually, just the last paragraph. Photo #2 shows location of A B points
     

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    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  19. Just plain Bill,

    Sent you a PM on this, figured I'd post it here too...was messing with the Winfield SR this afternoon and I noticed that the "plugs" in the bottom of the float (the large brass screws on the bottom of the float bowl casting) are reversed from where they are supposed to be - the "I" plug is in the port stamped "P" and vise-versa. As I understand it, these 'plugs' hold the idle and pump tubes in place...are these 'tubes' the same or do I need to figure out a way to get these 'plugs' out and swap them to their proper location (looks like slot for the screwdriver is stripped out)?

    Thanks,

    Gary
     
  20. WDO40
    Joined: Jul 22, 2007
    Posts: 166

    WDO40
    Member

    where is the best place to hook up a oil pressure gauge on a B model
     
  21. Magnus B
    Joined: Jun 19, 2005
    Posts: 887

    Magnus B
    Member

    Hello bangers

    Does anyone of you run Dan Eubanks connecting rods? I bought some for my build and now I have some questions and concerns. I have asked Dan, but after a couple of e-mails with no answer in 2 months I might just ask here instead.

    How do you put the cap on straight with no alignment sleeves? One might at least expect that the cap bolts were precision ground. When trying to put them on (rods not on crank) I get about +-0.002" diff between each trail. That will do now good to my lubrication.

    Thanks,
    Magnus
     
  22. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    The only way I know to make that kind of design repeatable is to cover the rod journal with heavy grease and hope the grease compresses evenly.
     
  23. Magnus B
    Joined: Jun 19, 2005
    Posts: 887

    Magnus B
    Member

    Yes that is of course one way to do it, but really I think a modern rod should have some kind of alignment. Are Dan's rods always made like this?

    Thanks,
    Magnus
     
  24. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,343

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    The stock rods are the same, no alignment sleeves. Here is what I do:

    With the rod assembled, but not tight, I find the side clearance with a feeler gage.
    Then I insert shim stock of that amount between the side of the rod and the cap and the crank throw. this forces the rod against the crank throw and alignes the cap and the rod.
    Then I torque the nuts.
    Once the nuts are torqued, Remove the shim and check the rod for free movement side to side and recheck the side thrust clearance.

    .
     
  25. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,343

    Crazydaddyo
    Member


    Somewhere on the dash where you can see it.


    .
     
  26. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Part of the ''heads up'' display Crazz like TOP GUN :)
     
  27. Sent you an email but here goes. Strip the float chamber. place it flat on drill press or mill table. Put the closes fitting screwdriver bit in the chuck. While putting down ward pressure on the bit turn the float chamber counterclockwise. Drill press might take an extra hand. Remember ,this is old casting! Next step is Vicegrips! I'm not in the shop but if memory serves me those are just plugs on the SR
     
  28. Take the pug out of the side of the block at the oil pump and thread a suitable fitting in.
     
  29. This type of rod should center itself as the bearing surfaces locate the cap from the diameter of the crankpin. When contact is made the cap surface should locate parallel to the plane of the crank-pin surface. This is/was very common method of cap location. As previously stated , stock AB do not have precision ground bolts.
     

  30. [​IMG]

    Okay, now what :D?
     

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