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Features Doing Falcons Right

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by falconizer_62, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. MUNCIE
    Joined: Jan 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,279

    MUNCIE
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  2. stoner72
    Joined: Jun 4, 2010
    Posts: 13

    stoner72
    Member
    from AZ

    So I am working the scarebird kit on my 63 Mercury Comet. Just had my drums cut down as hubs, but the studs don't fit into the stanza rotor.

    It looks like I'm going to have to dremmel some material out of the rotor. Has any one else had this issue?

    How did you resolve it? Are the scarebird hubs an exact fit?

    Trying to pay a pic, but can't. ..

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    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  3. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
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    The Scarebird hubs are an exact fit.
     
  4. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member

    stoner72, did you knock the stock studs out as they said in the instructions? The stock studs have a swage at the base where it meets the hub and that might be what doesn't clear.
     
  5. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 6,531

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    I wouldn't go after the rotors with a dremel! No way to get the holes perfectly round, which might cause vibration problems when barking later.
     
  6. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    That, and it has been a long-standing policy of mine to not modify wear items. It is probably the swage shoulder on the original studs that is causing the interference. That is the issue to resolve.
     
  7. stoner72
    Joined: Jun 4, 2010
    Posts: 13

    stoner72
    Member
    from AZ

    I had a shop swedge cut them out, cut the drum down and then press in the new studs.


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  8. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
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    Those studs look absolutely huge! are you sure they are 1/2"-20? My Nissan Stanza rotors dropped right over hubs with very minor trimming.
     
  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
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    Do the stock lug nuts fit on those studs? They should. Otherwise, the machine shop over-did it.
     
  10. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 6,531

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Good call. I'd sure try a 1/2" lug nut on those studs!
     
  11. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
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    stoner72, if you are in the Phoenix area, you are welcome to call and come by and see the completed Scarebird setup on my wagon. It's unfortunately sitting now pending the accident lawsuit that killed it, but the brakes and such are intact and you are welcome to copy anything I did.
     
  12. stoner72
    Joined: Jun 4, 2010
    Posts: 13

    stoner72
    Member
    from AZ

    Thanks for the input everyone. I emailed scarebird yesterday and he responded first thing morning.

    It appears that I ordered the wrong bolts. Going to verify tonight what I ordered. Might have to try again.

    Louvers, I am in the Phoenix area. Might have to check in with you later. Were you able to get the bolts out yourself? Might re buy studs and do it myself.

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  13. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
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    Absolutely! The studs you have in there right now should simply press out, as only the stockers are swaged. If need be we can head down to my wholesaler and get you not only the right stuff as far as studs, but an introduction so you can start buying parts the old fashioned way instead of the O'Riley/Autozone/Pep boys craziness that people seem to be okay with these days. My phone number is at the bottom of every post I do here on the H.A.M.B.
     
  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
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    I finally remembered that I never did document the Weber 32/36 install in my '60 144.

    I used a DFEV, 'cause I got one cheap. The barrel orientation, and the rotation of the throttle linkage offers the path of least resistance when adapting to the stock linkage.

    Keep in mind, a box stock DFEV has totally incorrect jets (p: 137, s: 140) for this application. It is a 4-cylinder setup, and a lean one, at-that. It MUST be re-jetted, or you will be no better than 14.7:1, even under acceleration. You won't be happy.

    For re-jetting, I used data acquisition hardware to monitor engine operating conditions, including operating temp, vacuum, and a wide-band Oxygen sensor.

    What I ended up with was:

    Idle jets - Primary 60, Secondary 50
    Mains - Primary 155, Secondary 160
    Air corrector- Primary 180, Secondary 160.
    Accelerator pump squirter - 60, dual nozzle.
    Idle mixture screw - about 1-3/4 turns out, set by best vacuum at lowest idle method.
    Timing - unrecorded, DUI HEI, set by best vacuum at idle method.
    Idle RPM - where it sounded good.
    Fuel pressure regulated by Weber regulator - 2 psi.

    This should nail the setup on a 144, at or near sea-level, depending on exact setup (ignition, driving style, etc). It will at-least give you a decent jumping off point if you need to tune for something else.

    This gives a 15.5:1 cruise A/F mixture, and just over 30mpg, at 65mph, steady-state, on level-'ish ground.

    Hope that helps.
     
  15. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 33,485

    loudbang
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    Isn't 15.5 a bit too lean?
     
  16. Falcon61wagon
    Joined: Mar 15, 2014
    Posts: 131

    Falcon61wagon
    Member
    from Indiana

    How would the jetting set up relate to a 170.


    Posted using my Big THUMB on a small screen!
     
  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    Nope. EGT tells the tale.
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
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    This should be pretty close for a 170.

    Need Louvers? Posted his 200 jets a little while back. They were very close to this, too, if a touch leaner.
     
  19. redzula
    Joined: Jul 6, 2011
    Posts: 1,002

    redzula
    Member

    Thanks for the info I need a jet kit for my 170 with the same weber. Just hadn't messed with it yet because I wasn't sure where to start. This should give a good baseline.

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  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    Oh, and I forgot to add, the DF and DG series Webers have a different size primary idle jet. One is fat, one is skinny. I don't believe that they interchange, although I have not tried.

    Make sure that you pull both primary and secondary idle jets and compare. If they look the same, the idle one is the skinny one. If they don't, the idle one is the fat one.

    Skinny:
    [​IMG]

    Fat:
    [​IMG]

    They are each slid into retaining screws:
    [​IMG]

    On the outside of the carburetor body (a link to a large diagram):
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dlt8k_lxV9c/TAPyQcSHX5I/AAAAAAAABTU/LLA_52-qdR8/s1600/3236dgv+jetting+001.jpg

    That diagram shows where everything else goes, too. Just bear in mind, there are two 32/36 carburetor bodies. They are identical but mirror-images. So if yours happens to look flipped, that's why. Some just fit better going the other way.

    As always, the primary barrel it the one that opens first.

    You will need to remove the tiny e-clip and disconnect the choke pull linkage from the arm to take the top off. You will see what I mean if you forget. It just won't let you. Use care and caution when removing the clip. It is super small, and is poised to dive right into the primary barrel. Leaving it off during jetting/tuning, for ease, seems to not be an issue. Mine has been off for almost a year (oops!) and has not had an issue. Just make sure to re attach the choke when putting the cover back on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
  21. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member


    That would be a VERY good baseline, and gleaned in a much more scientific way than my jet specs were.:D
     
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  22. stoner72
    Joined: Jun 4, 2010
    Posts: 13

    stoner72
    Member
    from AZ

    So I did sort of buy the wrong bolts. The base was much thicker, but it is the right thread and diameter. Nuts work fine, I just wouldn't be able to replace the with the Ranger studs.

    Going to look into replacing the MC so I only have to bend brake lines once.

    Sounds like most here have used the 72(?) Maverick MC. Does it have to say disc front, drum rear? Part number? Are there clearance issues with the brace?

    Does anyone know of different methods and the a associated pros and cons? I've read about a Geo MC and also a Tracer MC.

    Also, I need to track down some wheels to replace my 13" steelies. Those too are supposed to be from a 70s Maverick, correct?


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    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  23. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
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    As far as I know, all Mavericks had front discs. You can use Mustang and Falcon wheels, from about 65-71 (14's), Corvair, and 4-lug Maverick wheels. Datsun 240/260/280 wheels too, or aftermarket.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  24. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
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    No, some Mavs had drums. You need a MANUAL DISC/DRUM master cylinder from '74. Oh, and I don't care who wants to refute this and then try to "inform" me of what a proportioning valve does, if you are doing this with the Scarebird recommended parts you do not need one.
     
  25. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
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    I would personally pass on any sort of power brakes unless you have some sort of problem that would require it's use. Part of the coolness of these cars is that they are light and simple enough that they don't NEED all of the B.S. that a late model car has and destroys the quality of the drive.
     
  26. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
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    My Maverick memories are fuzzy.
     
  27. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    Here we go again.....

    Stoner72 (and anyone else doing a disc brake swap), do yourself a favor and do some independent research on proportioning valves before taking anyone's advice on a forum as gospel. Scarebird sells brackets, not systems.

    And by the way, here is a direct quote from Scarebird's web page for Falcon conversions:

    "This setup will work with the stock drum master, though we recommend you change over to a 1974 disc master* and install an adjustable proportioning valve."
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  28. redzula
    Joined: Jul 6, 2011
    Posts: 1,002

    redzula
    Member

    Had a little trouble coming in to work today. Car acted like it was out of gas then when you coast a little bit it works again for awhile. I limped it to a station and filled up but it only took 8 gals. It's done this a few other times and those times it only took 2-3 gals. I'm suspecting that my fuel pump isn't keeping up with my new weber 2 barrel (I.e. it can't keep the bowl full and when it's out it wants to die the coasting it fill back up a bit) I'd like to keep my mechanical pump since it's new and I don't really care for the look of an electric. Does anyone make a high volume pump for the 170. If I have to I suppose I could hide an electric and run it through the mechanical pump to keep the look, I saw someone that did that on a flathead one time. Am I looking in the wrong spot.

    About the electric pump would it be better to piggyback the mechanical and use both together or disable the mechanical so that the pressure is all electric.

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  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    Did you check/set the float level?
     
  30. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
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    You mean here YOU go again.

    What year Falcon do you own, and where did you get your engineering degree?

    Just asking, as some might want to vet your credentials.
     

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