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Projects Dodge This - 1939 Dodge Southeast Gasser Build

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Dog_Patch, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Thanks for the input Dave. Another idea would be to drill the end of the cam and put a round dowel in instead of this key way idea.
    IMG_0502.JPG IMG_0500.JPG
     
  2. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,884

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Tony, from what I can see in the pics, it appears that if the cam was removed form the engine it would be possible to mill the slot on out to the end of the cam snout, allowing a better grip by the pump. I would think any competent machinist, even including me, could set that cam up in a Bridgeport and extend that slot. That would give a better and stronger drive, if that's all that's driving the injectoer pump, it looks scary as all hell as it is, if that were to fail at high rpm/load at far end of the quarter, pump wouldn't pump, injectors would go lean. Likely result? burnt pistons at the very least.
    Problem is, at least for me doing it, is that next week I'm having a cataract operation and will be out of commission for a couple weeks for close work.
    ON EDIT
    OOPS!!!!! While I was typing you and Tyresmoke were also busy! That adaptor with the hex socket and the male hex on the pump do look much better!
    Dave is also correct that there's a woodruff key there that I tought was a square key. You'd have to mill the entire slot down to the deepest depth of the woodruff slot and then fab up a special key
    2nd edit: after another look I don't trust lock washers in a spot like this, maybe Loctite and safety wire..
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
  3. Tyresmoke
    Joined: Apr 9, 2012
    Posts: 171

    Tyresmoke
    Member
    from Norfork

    Just to recap the cam drive gear hub has been undercut .
    The Aluminium hub has been altered to fit then three equally spaced holes drilled through to the can drive gear hub which have then been tapped to locate both together.
    Have I understood correctly?
     
  4. Not exactly. The aluminum hub has never been modified. So when the aluminum hub is clamped onto the steel hub its just being held by clamping pressure of the center bolt ( plus the 1/16" if key sticking out). The 3 outside bolts only go through the hex adapter and into the aluminum 1/2".

    If the 1/16 of the key was not sticking out, the only thing stopping the aluminum from spinning is clamping pressure from the center bolt. It would be ideal if the 3 bolts went all the way into the steel hub, but they do not. Maybe that is another route.

    After thinking this over - no need dowel the cam, I can just dowel the steel collar. Way easier. Why does my brain work so slow ? o_O

    IMG_0503.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
  5. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,688

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    How about machining the keyed hub down so it has more key exposed. Then you could make a spacer to go between the pump drive hub to make up the difference.
     
  6. Tyresmoke
    Joined: Apr 9, 2012
    Posts: 171

    Tyresmoke
    Member
    from Norfork

    In that case I would drill three more holes between the three all ready in place .
    Spot drill through to the back plate ( gear hub) then tap
    Once done counter bore the Ali hub and fit short high tensile cap heads. Loctite using 243
    The pump drive coupling can now be fitted over the Ali hub and located on the original three holes .
    I would also clock on the pump drive coupling to make sure its running perfectly central to the cam.
    Doing it this way means the short cap heads are used allowing
    More precise fitting of the parts
     
  7. There we go! Best idea yet. Pretty easy too.
     
  8. Tyresmoke
    Joined: Apr 9, 2012
    Posts: 171

    Tyresmoke
    Member
    from Norfork

    Pleased to help.
     
  9. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,884

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Tony, I didn't quite have it clear in my head when you and I talked on the phone awhile ago, and I didn't realize then that the center bolt and the nub on the woodruff key were all that drive that adaptor, and the 3 bolts didn't go all the way into the cam hub.I now realize what you were asking about that. I agree with Tyresmoke 100% with the above approach to this.
     
  10. Since the adapter is held to the end of the cam with the center bolt, option 5 would be to put in a couple of hardened dowel pins (adapter to cam sprocket hub). The counter bore w/cap heads is a good set-up.
     
  11. It was 9 degrees this morning and my roll cage guy says he doesn't have heat in his shop. Waiting on some stuff to arrive to finish buttoning up the engine. Check this out - looks like 392's are still selling about the same as 1957. Russ just bought one for $1250 on Monday.
    used_engines.jpg
     
  12. Got the pump spacer deal sorted out. Only could drill 2 holes since the keyway is on one of the open spots. These pins are .25" longer than the spacer so they can't back out once the pump hex is bolted on.


    IMG_0527.JPG

    The oil pump and pickup arrived today and holy shit! Hecho in EUA !!! :)
    melling_usa.jpg
     
  13. allwilly
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 143

    allwilly
    Member

    What r crying bout the weather for? It's 15 below here!
     
  14. powrshftr
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 4,550

    powrshftr
    Member

    I second that.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1420808884.169378.jpg

    Scott


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  15. Well hell I should have hired a Canadian to build my cage o_O it would be done already.
     
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  16. jt306
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 56

    jt306
    Member

    What kinda shop doesn't have a heater? They sell them things at home Depot. I'm standing in front of mine right now and it's dam hot.
     
  17. jt306
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 56

    jt306
    Member

    Can't make no money if ya don't work.
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. Ya what Scott said!, 56 hear ya pansie asses!
     
  19. allwilly
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 143

    allwilly
    Member

    Shoulda sent it back w me to Wisconsin buddy!
     
  20. enloe
    Joined: May 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,865

    enloe
    Member
    from east , tn.

    Hopefully you will get it done before it gets too hot. I bet they don't have air either
     
  21. Ouch Enloe :D !!

    What's the spec on pickup to pan clearance? The damn Crank Scrapper guy has yet to deliver anything so it may not get one o_O I don't understand this industry sometimes, that's 2 months notice.

    IMG_0542.JPG
     
    enloe likes this.
  22. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,688

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    3/8 to 1/2 inch with pan gasket.
    I would like to see more thread sticking out of the main studs nuts.
     
  23. The main studs are finger tight per ARP - should I back them out of the block a couple turns ?
     
  24. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,688

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Not sure I would do that because then you will lose some thread engagement in the block kinda looks like a longer stud would be the answer but if when torqued down you have some thread exposed would be good. I think ideal would be the exposed thread would be the same as the diameter as the stud.
     
  25. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,884

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    jt306, that torpedo heater looks just like mine that I bought a few years ago @ Home Depot. Are you burning kero or diesel fuel? Mine I start out the year with 5 gal. K1 kero, then keep adding diesel as it burns down and run diesel rest of Winter. Seems to start out the season better on the kero, and does fine on diesel after it has sorta loosened up and cleaned itself out. Second season of use was slow to start up on diesel to start with. Had to switch on, and it would buzz for a bit, shut down, show "error" on dsplay, switch off, then I would switch back on 3-4 times before it would fire off. Last 2 years it has fired right off first of season with starting off with kero.
    I agree what kinda shop ain't got a heater? And enloe, I got AC too, 5 tons of it! But even with heat and AC , there's no way I can hope to keep up with some of yall on work accomplished. LOL
     
  26. You can take out the hardened washers since the nuts are on the girdle. Is the pump up against the rear stud/nut, if so, a little clearance is good. If there is any way to brace the pickup with a kick stand, I would. Long pickups have a habit of rattling/braking off.
    PS. A good windage tray is 10-15 hp so I'd wait a little longer. The holidays, and trade shows (SEMA & PRI), together, really slow down production in the industry. We are buried at CP-CARRILLO. People in the know start ordering in September/October, and by November we are real busy, then comes those holidays and trade shows which we need, but they are sticks in the spokes of production at the same time. I know your frustrated Tony, just thought a prospective from a manufacturer could shed a little light. Hang in there, gonna be fun when you hit the loud pedal
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2015
  27. Tony, ask Russ what happens when the pickup drops out.
     
  28. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,884

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Friend of mine here in Griffin who builds engines for all sorts of cars from stock to full blown nitrous, 1200 hp engines apprenticed under Bob Callaham, one time NHRA national record holder, now past 80 and semi retired from anything.
    Bob taught him a trick for oil pump pickup security that I like: Fab up a bracket from sheet steel, maybe 16-18 gauge, couple inches long, and 1/2" wide. with a hole that will go under one of the pump cover screws and flat up against the pickup tube. Put the bracket under the pump cover screw and lightly snug it, then clamp bracket to tube, weld it there securely, then tighten the pump cover screw. Tube is secured and little or no heat has been put on the oil pump.
     
  29. jt306
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 56

    jt306
    Member

    I run diesel in both of mine, but I get free fuel. They sometimes give trouble starting, but I just hit em with a shot of starting fluid. They won't blow up. But Don't put gas in one, just ask one of my former employees. It made one hell of a fire. That dam thing shot flames out 10 foot in front of it. It looked like a jet dragster. I wish I had some pics, but I was to busy trying to put it out.
     
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  30. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,884

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Where do you spray the starting fluid? In the air intake on the back?
     

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