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Dodge LA / 5 speed transmission options

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by rockable, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,595

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I cannot get a caliper into the pilot hole but I can feel that here is a step for the torque converter, then there is a smaller step and one smaller still. It feels like the crank was finished for a pilot bearing because the od of the second step is larger than the pilot drill. Does that make sense?
     
  2. llonning
    Joined: Nov 17, 2007
    Posts: 676

    llonning
    Member


    73RR, Good info! I had in the back of my mind about a Jeep bushing/bearing. I just couldn't remember what is was. I just remembered about the problems I faced 30+ years ago on the ones I converted.
     
  3. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,169

    RodStRace
    Member

    When using the Jeep bearing, I think that you may have to trim off some of the input shaft if the crank isn't machined fully. Check the fit before bench pressing it into the car.
     
  4. RTSrunner
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 25

    RTSrunner
    Member

    Another option is Passon Performance,they make an OD similar to the Mopar A-833,but stronger .Link- http://www.passonperformance.com/
    In addition to the 360,the 1973 340 engines had a cast crank and were external balance.The 340 had it's own proprietary harmonic balancer and special flywheel or converter weighs on an auto.A zero balance flywheel can be drilled to work on an external balance engine (i.e. a 318 flywheel on a 360 or cast crank 340).A Mopar Performance/Direct connection engine manual has the specifications for this.It helps with a sometimes difficult to find original part.The 318 was always an internal balance engine.The 360 engines are all external balance,however there are different balance factors for LA and Magnum series engines.(A 360 LA flywheel/damper will not be correctly balanced on a Magnum 5.9).I agree with the roller bearing in the converter register as an option.If the engine is apart the crank can be finish drilled for the O.E. type pilot bushing.Good luck with your Mopar project!
    RT
     
  5. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,595

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok, I confirmed that my crank is drilled for a pilot bushing. I confirmed this by tapping a pilot bushing into the crank! So, I'm good to go shopping this coming weekend for an AX15, etc. I still need to find a flywheel.
     
  6. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,595

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Am I going to run into problems with the starter? Isn't it mounted on the forward side of the transmission on the driver's side? My steering box is located there, too.

    I've since looked at it and I don't think I'll have a problem.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2010
  7. bigpip
    Joined: Jan 2, 2012
    Posts: 1

    bigpip
    Member
    from Central FL

    What happened here? I am looking up to you on your project and it just flat lined...
    How did you make out with the ax15 and what flywheel and pilot bearing do you use?
     
  8. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,216

    73RR
    Member

    Sometimes a project gets put on hold...

    .
     
  9. Bert Kollar
    Joined: Jan 10, 2007
    Posts: 900

    Bert Kollar
    Member

    contact Brewers Performance in Ohio They know everything there is to know about this they have all the parts you need
     
  10. freiertpc
    Joined: Nov 5, 2006
    Posts: 111

    freiertpc
    Member

    Well idk what happend but i just found this on search i bought a 440 and want a manual but don't need od i figure im gonna ask my buddy for one of his spare 4speed superbee trans he has idk what kind but his is for a 383 but this project is not kosher for this site ill keep quiet about the grand cherokee pro street dragster...I'm a chevy guy so this will be an adventure into the unknown for me. my 53' belair will be done before i start on it any way, You know how it is when the deals too good to pass up.
     
  11. rockthevox
    Joined: Dec 12, 2016
    Posts: 7

    rockthevox

    hey man i got something going on like that 40s plymouth
    its a 239 out of a 90 dakota (3.9 V6)
    ive fallowed all the way here im doing a V6 swap beache its more power then the 4 banger that its replacing trying to find a trans for it also would like a 5 speed manual NO AUTOS PLEASE
    slush boxes are all well and good but i want a STICK
    again LA block
    and recomenddations
    also will an NV3500 for a S10 bolt up to my 3.9 if it came off a 4.3
     
  12. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 1,885

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    My DD is an '01 Dakota with a 5 speed NV3500 behind a 3.9l V6. Not a common setup, but the factory made some that way. I don't know what the S10 trans looks like, but the Dakota service manual says:

    MANUAL - NV3500DESCRIPTION
    The NV3500 is a medium-duty, 5-speed, constantmesh, fully synchronized manual transmission. Fifthgear is an overdrive range with a ratio of 0.73:1. TheNV3500 is available in two and four–wheel drive con-figurations.
    The transmission gear case consists of two alumi-num housings (Fig. 1). The clutch housing is not aremovable component. It is an integral part of thetransmission front housing.

    so it seems likely that the S10 and Dakota would share a bolt pattern.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  13. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,260

    gene-koning
    Member

    My 48 Plymouth has a 239 V6 with a 5 speed out of a 90 Dakota. I believe its an AX15, because the bell separates from the trans. Its been in the car for 5 years, and the trans outlasted the first V6.
    I have 2 more Dakotas here with the 239 V6, one it a 91, and the other is a 95, the 95 is a Magnum motor, the 91 is an LA motor.
    What do you want to know? This car is actually built on a full Dakota frame, but I did build a 39 Plymouth coupe with the Dakota V6 before this car. Gene
     
  14. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,216

    73RR
    Member

    Your 3.9 is just a short 318 and all LA bellhousings will bolt up...LA as in MOPAR. GM versions will have gm bell patterns and Mopar will have Mopar patterns.
    You have options for 3-speeds (NP230), 4-speeds (A833), 3+1 overdrive (A833), 5-spds (AX5, AX15), 6-spds (Getrag 238) plus all of the newer stuff like the NV series.
    Keep in mind that MaMopar used a 130 tooth ring as well as a 143 tooth ring in the newer cars and they do not interchange. The flywheel must be used with the correct bellhousing.

    .
     
  15. earlymopar
    Joined: Feb 26, 2007
    Posts: 1,001

    earlymopar
    Member

    I mated a 1995 “world class” T-5 to my Polysphere 318 although I’m not at all suggesting the other options mentioned here would not work equally well. I just liked the T-5 design with regard to factory gear ratios, being reasonably robust in stock form in terms of HP capability and having decent performance options available. The extended shaft of the 1995 model also allowed me to have an easier time with the bell housing adapter I made and the hydraulic slave cylinder mechanism I fabbed up. I have a list of the all pieces I used so if interested, please PM me.


    • EM
     
  16. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,453

    mcmopar
    Member
    from Strum, wi

    I have a ax-15 that I am using until I get the cash for a TKO. There is a lot of good info on here.
    Thanks Tony
     
  17. rockthevox
    Joined: Dec 12, 2016
    Posts: 7

    rockthevox



    73RR you are a god!
    im not sure but i could swear it was you who posted something about a bell housing from a 94-98 dakota mating up to a WIDE range of gear boxes and if not you the person who DID mention it made a recommendation of a supra of some kind's Gear box as it had the best close range with like a 3.07 1st?
    i'll be heading to a yard a fair ways away so gas is important here so money is REAL tight on that front so the more i know ahead of time the better off i am
    i saw the thing about the 3.7s and the 4.7s flywheels so i know to AVOID using them
    my like 239 was a slush boring box so that is the MAIN reason im getting a stick
    now as a way to curb coast at every turn i'll PROBABLY be using EVERYTHING from the flywheel back clutch included
    i saw mention of hydraulic clutches on the aforementioned trannys and was wondering would i need to grab a booster for them?
    the stick in my wagon at present is a cable clutch deal so it never had a hydraulic trans and as such dosent have a booster
    this concernes me no for the fact that boosters are hard to get but WOULD drive up my limited buget

    also any and all gear ratios for any applicable gear boxes that WOULD fit such a bell would be nice if you know of any

    and lastly i WILL bve trying to build power out of that V6 and i KNOW the 318 CAN make (for dirt cheap too, 1500$) about 406 Horse with a STOCK bottom end pistons with just a medium cam a 360 4 barrel intake (cast iron) port and polished heads (302 casting) and you can even stick a 2.06 intake in said head and not worry about it hitting the cynlder wall
    that motor had 2.02/1.60s IT/EXT in it so im thinking of going that rout with the 239 but i'll be boring it as far as possible, im thinking just for ease of parts going for a 4" bore a mild cam valve job and a port and polish with some block and head decking to bump up the compresson ration
    im siting a HOTROD artical from the roadkill kings
    frieburger, dulchich, and Steve Brule' for the 318 info
    and im thinking NA with the 600 CFM Holley (4160) + the 4-2 barrel riser(about 4 inches one off custom)/addaptor think to use the stock manifold And the aorementioned parts done 320ish horse on pump with saaay a 9.5-1 compression raito is possible?? not HUGE power but huge power for its size and in a WAGON that from the factory weighs like 2400 pounds? not a bad number at all



    i ask YOU these questions becuase you seem to know the most about mopars here and so i ask becuase my thisrt for this info has been killing me
     
  18. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,216

    73RR
    Member

    ...hhhmmmm..... I remember someone once saying " Oh Gawd, its you again...", but not sure it was meant in a Diety-like manner....

    Some random thoughts.
    •Although the trans to bell pattern might be the same for several different transmissions, the length of the input shaft may preclude actually swapping bits around, remember that you still need the clutch disc engaged. The availability of differing lengths certainly helps if you are assembling an odd-ball package but if you are building a SBM of some sort then you are best off using SBM parts and not mixing in something like a Supra trans (you did say money is tight) even with an input shaft change.
    •Flywheel. If your crank is the typical Mopar 6-bolt then stay with it. There are plenty of suitable flywheels available.
    •There were two hydraulic clutches used with the AX15; hyd slave and hyd bearing. The front bearing retainer can be swapped if you want to change from one to the other. These are strictly hyd operators, nothing needs a 'booster'.
    •As for SBM engine building tips I'll let someone else jump in there.

    .
     
  19. rockthevox
    Joined: Dec 12, 2016
    Posts: 7

    rockthevox

    ......There were two hydraulic clutches used with the AX15; hyd slave and hyd bearing. The front bearing retainer can be swapped if you want to change from one to the other. These are strictly hyd operators, nothing needs a 'booster'.
    •As for SBM engine building tips I'll let someone else jump in there.

    so as far as the Clutch pedal is considered all i need is the line and nothing esle?
    the car im swaping the drive train into is a 1985 toyota Tercel Station Wagon 4X4 its stick is operated via a cable pulling/releasing a lever on the bell housing
    seeing as there us mentioned of hydraulic Clutches here i ASSUME i need a Hyd line going from the pedal into the Tranny yes?
    all my information on hydrualic clutches comes from my summer car where said car has a booster for the clutch that takes brake fluid so i assume the worse and pray for the best in this case
    any other info would help like the bell of the 4.7 works but dont get its gear box its got this this and this issue with it stuff like that if you know of any like that
    thanks many times over again
    -rock
     
  20. rockthevox
    Joined: Dec 12, 2016
    Posts: 7

    rockthevox

    Words of Wisdom from Hnstray



    "AX15 trans is also used in Dodge Dakota Pickups with V6 and 5.2 V8 and in some Toyota Celica Supra models. The bellhousing detaches from the main case so the Jeep, Dakota and Toyota are essentially the same behind the bellhousing.

    I have run them quite a bit in Jeeps off-roading with no problems.

    Ray"
     
    caseywheels likes this.
  21. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,260

    gene-koning
    Member

    rockthevox,
    If you have a clutch pedal that originally operated a cable clutch, you will need to adapt a hydraulic slave cylinder to your existing firewall and connect that cylinder to the pedal by mechanical linkage. Then you will need a fluid line from the cylinder to the hydraulic mechanism on the clutch bell housing. You will need a bell housing that bolts up to the motor you are using, and then a transmission that bolts up to the bell housing you are using.

    At issue here is that in today's world, some main parts (like a transmission) are used by several different car manufacturers, but often the parts that connect (bell housings and clutches) these common parts (transmissions) to a specific manufacturers motor may be vastly different.

    Your search needs to start with a bell housing, flywheel, and clutch that bolts to your specific motor (nothing else may work).
    Then you need to find a transmission that bolts to your bell housing (that may be a common part with other manufacturers).
    Then you need a clutch releasing setup (cable, hydraulic, mechanical) that can be fit to your car and will work with the clutch, bell housing (that matches your motor) and transmission.
    Then on the output end of the transmission, you need a yoke, u-joints, and driveshaft (which may be common with other manufacturers) that will connect to your rear axle (which may also be common with other manufacturers), and a transmission shifter (which may be transmission and car body specific) that will work in your car.

    Boards like this are great to tell you what transmission may have been used in which cars, and which clutch and bell housings may match, but if it doesn't apply to your specific motor or car, that info may be pretty useless to you. Unless someone has done a hands on experience with the same exact parts you have, information on boards like this one must be considered manufacturer specific.

    Lets touch on engine performance. You can not assume that all V6 motors will respond to the same modifications. What may help one V6, may kill, or slow down a different V6. There may be general modifications that help most motors, but the word "most" is pretty important. It implies that a specific modification will not help all motors, and the motor you have may be one the modification won't help. Any effort to upgrade performance of a specific motor has to come from information pertaining to your specific motor. Seek information from people that develop performance from motors that are the same as your motor. Any other information may be misleading. Gene
     
  22. rockthevox
    Joined: Dec 12, 2016
    Posts: 7

    rockthevox

    "....Lets touch on engine performance. You can not assume that all V6 motors will respond to the same modifications. What may help one V6, may kill, or slow down a different V6. There may be general modifications that help most motors, but the word "most" is pretty important. It implies that a specific modification will not help all motors, and the motor you have may be one the modification won't help. Any effort to upgrade performance of a specific motor has to come from information pertaining to your specific motor. Seek information from people that develop performance from motors that are the same as your motor. Any other information may be misleading."

    as for the Motor
    its a 1990 Dodge Dakota V6
    and as such is part of the LA Block Family and NOT the Magnum family,
    assumeing i can deck the head to lower the CC count of the Combustion chamber, stick some bigger valves (2.02I/1.60E) in it port and polish the heads and chamber its NOT unreasoneble to ask 250 horse out of said motor
    realisticly, and MAYBY 300 horse hopefully with a 4 inch bore mayby a tad more?
    at SOME point a cam WILL be going into said engine
    hopefully via crane cams

    as for the Car Body its a funky one

    a 1985 Toyota SR5 Tercel STATION WAGON XD
    this econo box of a wagon weights NOTHING factory weigth of 2400 pounds



    the latest video of the said car build on my channel

    as for the clutch issue
    so what your getting at here is that i'll need to snag the Clutch pedal from said ride FOR the trans too?
    well shit...
    thta sucks that means i'll have to graft it on to the wagon right?
    or can i use the pre existing pedal and graft a booster pump with line on to THAT?
    any info will help no matter what
    thanks in advance
    rock
     
  23. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,260

    gene-koning
    Member

    Let me start out saying I have a 1990 Dakota 3.9 & 5 speed in my white and blue car. I built it from scratch with few dollars, and I have built a lot of off the wall stuff. I raced Mopar cars on a dirt track with little money for many years. I'm going to give you my honest opinion, based on many years of doing this stuff.

    My coupe weighs in about 1000 lbs more then your wagon. The motor is bone stock with the Y pipe and single exhaust I'm running the throttle body fuel injection, stock computer and all. With a 3:55 gear limited slip rear end and 225 75-15 tires, I can get rubber in 2nd and a chirp in 3rd. The 5 speed doesn't like power shifting very much, shift mechanism is inside the trans, is rather slow, and a bit weak.

    I watched part of your video. With the camera jerking around and all the foul languish, part of the video was about all I could stand. If you do an update, try to stay on subject. Pull the motor out of the wagon and see if the Dakota V6 will even fit in the car.

    If the cable clutch system on your car still works, you may be able to adapt how the trans end attaches to the bell housing to make it work on the Dakota bell housing, that attachment will replace the Dakota hydraulic slave cylinder, at or near the slave cylinder's mounting location on the bell housing. Keep in mind, the Dakota slave cylinder pushes the clutch arm, and the cable probably pulls the clutch arm ( I'm guessing here), you will need to adapt it so it works the right way. Other wise, you would use the clutch pedal from the car, but it needs to be adapted to a hydraulic clutch master cylinder (like the one from a Dakota) and that clutch master cylinder will have to be adapted to your car. You are probably going to have to modify your alternator bracket, I doubt it will work in the car. All of this may be pretty difficult because it doesn't appear as though you have the equipment to do much adapting.

    If you get the AX15 Dakota 5 speed, it, the bell, the flywheel, the clutch, the clutch slave cylinder, and the starter (as well as the starter from your original trans) will all bolt together and work. I suspect your probably going to have to shorten a driveshaft, the wagon looks a lot shorter that a Dakota truck is.

    Do you have a carb for the V6? Do you have the carb intake for a Dakota? What are you going to use for an ignition system? A 90 Dakota was throttle body injected, and would require the Dakota fuel pump, and a computer to make it run. An 87 and some 88s were carbed, and had an electronic ignition.

    All the factory intakes for the LA 3.9 are either a 2bbl carb, or throttle body injection. The small 2 bbl carb won't supply enough fuel to add too much more power to the 3.9. At one time, a 4bbl intake was available for the 3.9, but finding one would be pretty hard and pretty expensive. Without the 4bbl intake and carb, installing the bigger valves and milling the heads will be a waste of money, the 2bbl intake will be your limiting factor. A hotter cam may or may not net the results you are after.

    I suspect you will end up using the exhaust manifolds on your project. I suspect its going to be difficult to get any type of exhaust on the motor in that project, but we all may be surprised. The bolts you need to bolt the manifolds to the heads, and to bolt the pipes to the manifolds can be bought at a local hardware store, they should be 5/16" bolts, in different lengths. You may be able to use your Y pipe as is, or cut it apart and use the manifold ends to get the exhaust away from the motor and wiring. Cutting the Y pipe apart will help the performance if you can do it without burning the car up, the exhaust has to get below the wiring and the car firewall.

    All of this is off topic for this board, and this thread may get shut down. I might suggest you may be happier over at www.killbillet. com The guys there are more in line with what your doing. I'm "gene" there.
    Keep us updated. Gene
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  24. rockthevox
    Joined: Dec 12, 2016
    Posts: 7

    rockthevox

    this thread may get shut down. I might suggest you may be happier over at www.killbillet. com The guys there are more in line with what your doing. I'm "gene" there.
    Keep us updated. Gene[/QUOTE]

    Gene i Hope not
    tho that said i thank you for the concern and linking me to the updated site
    i mean one of the reasons is that car dosent owe me a damn thing
    IF ANYTHING
    my family owes it sooo much
    it paid iits worth a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago in just the gas
     
  25. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,595

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    After finally getting this car up and running, I'm here to report that the AX15 with a B&M Short Shifter worked out well. The transmission I have is tight and quiet and the first gear is a little low but not bad.

    Thanks for the help and recommendations.
     
    35desoto, 73RR and Hnstray like this.
  26. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,453

    mcmopar
    Member
    from Strum, wi

    I have raced the truck in my avatar, and it still has a AX15 in it. I am racing at Rockfalls Again today and the tranny is still holding up. It has a 318 in it but I drive it like I stole it, just need it to last one more season.
    Tony
     
  27. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,260

    gene-koning
    Member

    It appears the AX 15 in my coupe may outlast my left knee. This old age thing isn't for wimps. Gene
     
    rockable, 73RR and Hnstray like this.
  28. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,595

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  29. Mopar Tony
    Joined: Jun 11, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Mopar Tony

    I am getting ready to start a build on a 1952 Plymouth. I am planning on dropping in a 360 magnum mated to a AX15 but was told that it would not hold up to the 360 magnum. From what I am reading here the AX15 is stout enough? I am looking for mainly cruising around with the occasional hot rod moment, every now and then you have to stomp on it. Is that the consensus here?
     
  30. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,595

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't think you will have a problem. You don't want to be drag racing it every weekend, however.
     

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