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Dodge LA / 5 speed transmission options

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by rockable, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,625

    73RR
    Member


    ^^^what murfman says^^^

    A quick check today shows many AX15 bellhousings available, unfortunately, the $15 jobs are long gone...:cool:
    I have sourced quite a few trans/bell packages from craigslist and no major disappointments yet.
    Be sure to get the throwout arm with the bell, it is NS1 at Chrysler. New slave cylinders litter the pages of ebay...

    .
     
  2. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,500

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Anybody got ratios for the AX-15 and the NV3500? Is 1st gear really low?
     
  3. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,625

    73RR
    Member

    Gear ratios for the AX15 are: 3.83, 2.33, 1.44, 1.00, 0.79, for first through fifth

    Gear Ratios ... NV1500. 3.940. 2.370. 1.490. 1.000. 0.830.


    Gear Ratios: NV3550. 4.01. 2.33. 1.39. . 1.00. 0.78

    .
     
  4. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,500

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ugh. First gear is almost useless in a car, isn't it? A Muncie M-21 has a 2.56 first gear and the M-20 has a 2.2. I guess you just use first for going up steep driveways. :)
     
  5. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,171

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL



    I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so fast. Consider that the OD ratio is about .80 in all cases. That means you are going to get the equivalent of 80% of the rear gear in 5th. So, if you had fairly high numeric gears, like 3.92 for instance, you'd be pulling the equivalent of 3.13/3.14. BUT, if you go further down (numerically) to, say 3.55, then your equivalent final drive would be 2.84. Go lower still and it gets better yet on the highway cruise side, (3.21 = 2.56) yet with the lower 1st/2nd/3rd you still get good performance around town. Tire size also figures into actual engine rpm, but the effective axle ratios remain the same as illustrated.

    Quite few 5 spd/OD trans have OD ratios in the .68/.70 range and that makes the effective rear axle ratios take a bigger leap and when combined with a taller 1st gear, could hurt initial acceleration. This isn't so bad, IMO.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
  6. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,625

    73RR
    Member

    As you note, GM used close ratio gear boxes along with a deep rear axle ratios whereas Mopar typically used wider trans ratios and 'freeway' gears out back. Most 4-spd cars used a 3.55 unless it was a special order.
    Some examples:
    The conventional A-833 four-speed with the 23-spline input shaft;
    o 1964 to 1966 Barracuda, Dart and Valiant (3.09:1 ratio first gear)
    o 1964 to 1970 all B-body and full-size models (close ratio 2.66:1 first gear)
    o 1967 to 1979 A-body and 426 Hemi engines in early 1966 (also 2.66:1 first gear)
    A-833 with eighteen-spline input shafts;
    o Late 1966 and up cars with 426 Hemis and 440s (these used a 2.65:1 first gear)
    o 1970 B- and E-body cars with 340, 400 or 440 (2.44:1 first gear ratio)
    And lastly, the overdrive configuration with a 23-spline input;
    o 1975 to 1979 Valiant, Duster, Dart, Scamp, Swinger, Volare, Aspen (3.09:1 ratio first gear)
    o 1975 to 1987 Dodge light-duty pickups and Dodge and Plymouth Vans (3.09:1 ratio first gear)
    o 1977 to 1979 Diplomat and LeBaron (3.09:1 ratio first gear)

    Combine the deep 1st gears with a 4.10 or 4.56 and you will make the guy 'next door' think he was in reverse when you launch...and with an O/D you still get to cruise on the freeway.
     
  7. Frankie47
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,878

    Frankie47
    Member
    from omaha ne.

    Fits well under a 46-48
    dodoge
    desoto
    chrysler
    Just have to change the perches like any other swap.:)
    Plymouth is always a little bit narrower than the rest.
     
  8. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca

    I was the first to respond to your post & told you that I had one. As for what is needed, try to find the mag article on the Cuda that just had one installed. I also did a google on this trans and got a ton of info. BTW the one I have for sale is all aluminum.
    Van
     
  9. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,693

    Weasel
    Member

    As I recall from a couple of years back there were two different width 8.8 Ford Exploder rears - 59.5" and 62". I have the wider one under my stock fendered '40 Ford - just...
     
  10. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,500

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've decided to keep it all Mopar. I'm going with a 340 engine, AX-15 transmission and a Dakota 8.25 rear. I won't be "hammering" it a lot, so I think this will work out fine for me with a 3:55 gear.

    What clutch, flywheel, starter motor combination will I need?
     
  11. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,625

    73RR
    Member

    You will need the late 5.2 or 5.9 143 T flywheel, a clutch plate with correct splines for the trans and a pressure plate that covers the disc and fits onto the flywheel. Call Paul for disc and PP.
    Paul M Unterstein
    Technical Sales Rep
    American Powertrain
    A Tremec Elite Distributor
    931.646.4836 Ext 102

    Also, send a PM to BobbyD, I think he may have a flywheel for sale.

    Numerous ebay vendors sell the hi-torque mini starters if you do not get one with the bellhousing.

    .
     
  12. Have you already started tearing it apart? So much for "I'm going to buy a car I can drive until my Catalina is done. :)


    I'm game for some labor swapping. Tuesday nights at your garage....Thursday's at mine. (sounds like a creepy porn flick).
     
  13. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,500

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes, Dan. So much for that. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  14. fiveohnick2932
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 891

    fiveohnick2932
    Member
    from Napa, Ca.

    If you are going to put a SB mopar in it just get a 5 speed out of a 90's ram with a 318/360. Or you could get a A518 auto out of a similar ram (2WD that is). Be thankful you dont have a BB mopar, putting a 5 speed behind one of those costs over a couple grand :(
     
  15. Greg55_99
    Joined: Mar 3, 2009
    Posts: 39

    Greg55_99

  16. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,625

    73RR
    Member

    Hey Greg, Thats what it is supposed to look like...nice package!

    .
     
  17. Greg55_99
    Joined: Mar 3, 2009
    Posts: 39

    Greg55_99

  18. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,625

    73RR
    Member

    Holy Crap!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

    I do believe that a guy could fabricate a B-RB bell for less money.


    Gary
     
  19. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,500

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ooh, that's a little.....no a lot.........more money than I wanted to spend. :)

    Let me see if I got this right.

    I ended up with a 360, so I need a late 70's 360 flywheel, t/o bearing and pressure plate, along with a clutch disc to match up to my tranny.

    I'm looking at a late 90's Dakota 5 speed, so I don't need a bellhousing but I do need the clutch disc and related shifter mechanism for the pressure plate. also, need the hydraulics.

    In addition, I'll need the driveshaft from the above Dakota, to go with my late 80's Dakota rear axle.

    The Dakota transmission has bellhousing integral, so I won't need a bellhousing. In addition, I'll need a starter for a late 70's 360 engine. Correct?

    Thanks!
     
  20. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,625

    73RR
    Member

    The AX15 was replaced by the NV series in 1999, IIRC. If you are using the AX15 then you will find that the bell does separate from the trans...the metric bolts are inside the bell...The NV series bells are integral...
    If the Dakota has a 3.9/5.2 then grab the flywheel, if you need a new wheel go to O'Riellies.
    At some point, not sure when, the external slave was replaced by the hydraulic t/o bearing.
    Use a late 'peanut' size starter (stock on the Dakota).

    .
     
  21. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,500

    rockable
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    Thanks RR!

    I need a 360 flywheel. Is it just less expensive to have a V-6 or V-8 flywheel modified?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  22. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,625

    73RR
    Member

    Modified for ?

    The 3.9(short 318), 5.2(318) and 5.9(360) are all the same...

    .
     
  23. llonning
    Joined: Nov 17, 2007
    Posts: 680

    llonning
    Member

    Haven't seen this yet. Make sure to check the crank for pilot bushing/bearing size. If the crank is from an auto, it probably won't be machined for the pilot. Ran into that quite a few times over the years.
     
  24. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,500

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    360 Flywheel is externally balanced, RR. :)

    It's on my engine stand, so I can't see it but it has a significant counterbore in the end of the crank. Can I safely assume I'm good to go?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  25. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,207

    Truckedup
    Member

    I mess around some with Jeep Cherokees,the Ax15 tranny has a low first gear and a big gap between first and second.The other ratios are closer.It also has a reputation for shitty synchros,especially second gear.Redline oil often helps.The NV tranny as far as Jeep Cherokess are concerned was only offered in the last two years of Cherokee production,2000-01.It didn't work well at all in the Cherokee application and 4x4 guys can't replace them fast enough. Maybe the 2 wheel drive version is better? I had a 94 4.3 S10 with a NV3500. It was ok ,not a fast shifter and first gear was a fairly low 3.50. NV3500's are rated for 300 ft lbs of torque,they probably take a bit more if the shock loads aren't too severe,like sticky tires and hard starts.
    I also used a few GM versions of the 4speed A833 OD tranny.It's fairly rugged but the alloy case is weak and the countershaft pounds the fuck out of the case and bad shit happens.Again,maybe the Mopar version of this tranny is more rugged.And again,wide spaced gear ratios....
     
  26. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,500

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks, Truckedup. The more feedback I get, the more confused I become. :(
     
  27. llonning
    Joined: Nov 17, 2007
    Posts: 680

    llonning
    Member


    The large hole is for a converter. The one you need to check is farther in the crank. If I remember they had 3 different sizes, not all were for bushing/bearing applications.
     
  28. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member

    You can't assume that the back of the crank is drilled for a pilot bushing. All were drilled, but only those that went into manual trans applications were finish sized for the bushing. When I did mine, I left that for last thinking I would just go down to the parts store and get a bushing and be done. Big game show buzzer on that one! I ended up making a bushing carrier that fit the torque converter register and accepted a bushing. That was the only true surface on the back of my crank. Sounds allot worse than it was, though.
     
  29. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,500

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'll mike it tomorrow. Details. Details. Details.
     
  30. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,625

    73RR
    Member

    Okaaay.....just about everything in the Mopar camp was externally balanced after '75, and yes, all 360 were externally balanced.

    You do not need a crank drilled for a pilot bushing, use the later Jeep sealed roller bearing that mounts in the lip of the crank (where the nose of the converter registers).

    This swap is not complicated, do not make it so.

    .
     

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