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Folks Of Interest Do we expect too much or overthink things? Warning almost a rant

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by porknbeaner, Apr 3, 2020.

  1. 41 GMC K-18
    Joined: Jun 27, 2019
    Posts: 3,564

    41 GMC K-18
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    First of all, thank you to Beaner for this thread.

    Bare with me, this is about NOT over thinking it.

    Back in 1975, I had just gotten out of the army and I was 22 years old. I had driven cross country from Fort Sill in Lawton Oklahoma back to Atwater California in my off topic 59 MGA roadster. It was a POS from day one and that cross country journey, was to be my last in that little danger bucket. Nothing more scary than to read the word " GOODYEAR " spinning next to your head from big truck tires right next to you on the freeways in Los Angeles.

    The picture is of my old GF next to the Green death lure.
    Tesa at Lawton (2).jpg
    When I pulled up in front of my dads wrecking yard in the BRG British POS, my dad said, I thought I taught you better than that, he said, son, put a for sale sign on it and park it out front, I have the perfect vehicle for you out back that you can buy off of me for $100.00. He said, this rig was abandoned and we drug it in, you can get it for $100.00, as it would turn out, that was the best money I ever spent on a vehicle, it was a 1956 IHC S-110 retired bell telephone line service truck.
    56 IHC phone truck.JPG hippy phone truck.JPG
    Before I could argue against the truck, my dad said, look, its easy to work on, it has a bench seat, it has a heater, it has a 3 on the tree and flat floor boards, it has windows that roll up and doors that you can lock, it has a box on the back that you can modify so that you can carry stuff in it, and its dam near indestructible ! He was right, it was easy to work on, he showed me the trick on how to replace the leaking rear main seal with out having to pull the engine out, seeing how the main seal was just a piece of rope, amazing. I installed new points plugs, cap and rotor, new wires, changed the oil and put in some fresh antifreeze. The old black diamond 220 - 6 banger ran very well with a little attention.

    Once I got the racks and drawers removed out of the back, I now had space to carry stuff, junk, tools, etc, etc, etc . In that first week of driving it, the red generator light came on, and I thought I would go see our friend Wayne Urban in Merced at his electrical repair shop so that he could repair the generator. Wayne said, you don't need a new generator, there is nothing wrong with the one that is in the truck, I said what about the red light coming on? He said, if you will be open minded about this, I will show you how to deal with this, besides, this will save you money.

    Wayne said, the springs are weak that push the brushes onto the armature/commutator, he said, there is plenty of brushes left, you just need to scare ( rattle through vibration ) the springs a bit and wake them up a bit. He said, you need a pencil and a small note pad, I had that in the glove box. He said, now write down the mileage, that is the most important. I did write it down. He said the pencil and the paper and the mileage was very important, so don't loose track of that.

    He said, now use a block of wood, say about a 2"X 4" about 8 inches long, and you will need a hammer, ball peen preferred over a claw hammer, I had both in my tool box. Next he said, position the wood block onto the rear of the generator, and with the hammer, gently but with dedicated force, hit the wood several times, and then go around and gently tap the voltage regulator to un stick the points inside. I did that, and voila, the red light went off !

    Wayne said, now that you have the mileage written down, you are good for about 600 miles before the red light will come on again, when it does, write down the new mileage and repeat this process that I taught you.

    About 2 months later, my GF and I were in the Cornbinder, out in the country side at a stop sign, ( no traffic ) and the red light came on, I said to her, get the pencil and the note pad out of the glove box and write down the mileage, she said why? I replied, please just do it, and tell me if the red light goes off after I do what comes next.

    I did the magic process with hammer and wood, and indeed the red light went off. The truck had covered exactly 620 miles, so Wayne missed the prediction of miles, to when the red light would come on again, by 20 miles ! I was truly amazed at how this information was so simple and so direct. I never did change out the older generator or have it rebuilt, to me it was just too much fun to demonstrate to those that rode in the truck with me from time to time, that I had a bit of magic I could perform on the truck, that was taught to me by an older more experienced electrical magician/technician/, that you wont read in any shop manual.

    Of all of the vehicles I have had in my life, the 56 IHC S-110 phone truck, was the most fun and the most reliable, and most fun to work on. It never required me to OVER think it !

    Hence the smile on my face when I was driving my 56 Cornbinder. I wish I had never sold it. It was a great machine to learn on, about how some things should not be over thought or overly modified !

    That is just my opinion and what an older more experienced mechanic/technician taught me!

    "EVERYTHING OLD IS NEW AGAIN"
    56 IHC happy daze.JPG






     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
    raven, wicarnut, porknbeaner and 14 others like this.
  2. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    Oh great. I had never thought of looking for 6 volt quad headlights before. If I ever find them, I will have to wire them in series.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  3. CobraJoe
    Joined: Mar 19, 2018
    Posts: 56

    CobraJoe
    Member

    Not to overthink things, but if it were me, I would install a relay........Just sayin'
     
    theHIGHLANDER and Just Gary like this.
  4. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    My last comment should have been posted on April 1. I guess sarcasm needs the right tone of voice.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  5. Sarcasm’s definition is -
    “Terror of the heart with intent to wound deeply”

    Irony On the other hand is usually just all round funny.

    Satire is a much bigger umbrella and can be funny but also can contain sarcasm.
     
    CobraJoe likes this.
  6. Keep
    It
    Simple
    Stupid
     
  7. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I think society in general is over thinking everything,when it comes to my old vehicles I like to keep them simple except for a few things. I do like better brakes since were are now in a world with cars that will stop on the dime like they used to say with people who know little about driving that will just stop in traffic when they miss their turn instead of going around the block and I do like more highway friendly gears so I can drive at 70 without the engine sounding like its going to come apart. Since I noticed points and condenser quality has went south I do like a electronic ignition which probably does a better job firing up that crappy gas we now have but other then that I like them simple.
     
    41 GMC K-18 likes this.
  8. I’m not sure about Dayton but around here the round about intersection is growing in popularity & there’s supposed to be no stopping once you’re in the round about.
    I’ll be a SOB if some idiot don’t slam the brakes and stops to let someone in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
    mad mikey likes this.
  9. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    They are showing up around here too.
     
  10. Want a chuckle? When I first joined the HAMB the general consensus was that if you wanted to be able to drive your hot rod everyday you had to find a '70s era wheezer motor. A genny hot rod motor was not dependable enough to drive.

    I think we got somewhere in the neighborhood is 150K daily and racing on the Timex 355. Trouble free miles. @Kevin Lee has a flatty he calls the Toaster, that was in his first hot rod. He found it under a pile of stuff in a junk store is I have the story right. it is the mill in my avitar. That was the day that we got together and bolted heads and etc on it and fired it off. He drove it [everywhere] for at least 3 years before he ever pulled the pan and discovered broken chit in the crank case. LOL I think its in his daily pickup now.
     
  11. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 6,138

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    An interesting thought. Here's my $.02 on the subject.

    I'd rather overthink something than underthink it. Overthought slows the process, can stifle productivity, and can run costs up. However, all of that is forgotten when it works right the first time and you never have to touch it again, or if in time it's easy to service. If it's underthought, and there are unintended consequences that could have been foreseen, then you wind up having to do it over again, at the expense of probably even more time and money. So overthought is not ideal, but it's far from the worst thing you can do.

    In terms of expecting too much, there's the old saying that you should shoot for the moon, and if you fall short, you land among the stars. Lame, I know. But if you aspire to build a car that performs, stops and steers well, is not a squeaky rattle trap, and want it to be as comfortable as a new car, if you fall short, you've still got a car with tremendous quality.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
    Peter Nowak, Just Gary and Ned Ludd like this.
  12. BoogittyShoe
    Joined: Feb 18, 2020
    Posts: 330

    BoogittyShoe

    If I'm trying to figure out how to do something, I usually think in terms of best materials available, easiest fabrication, safest/unfailing construction(low maintenance) Appearance only counts if it is going to be visible.
     
  13. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,799

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This still look better than all the modern stuff even it you put some of it behind and under it. A472C545-7B40-41B9-BA3F-B7BFCAFFAEFF.jpeg
     
    Charlie K, warbird1, raven and 6 others like this.
  14. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    I hear ya beaner, but the concept violates the "Six P's of Engineering" :p :D

    Jon.
     
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  15. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,349

    -Brent-
    Member

    I have a lot of this same sentiment @porknbeaner.

    However, a lot of aspects of my coupe are over-thought. Part of it is doing something according to the era, part of it is putting our own flavor into it, and part of it - truly - is trying to keep it simple and without too much complication.

    Another thing is... I can't stop thinking about it, haha.
     
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  16. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,025

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    The thing about simplicity is, it isn't a simple concept. Specifically, conceptual simplicity often militates against practical simplicity.

    Take a table: four legs, four rails, and a top; nine elements. That's a fairly simple concept, a four-legged table. Now try to simplify it.

    Let's make it a three-legged table: three legs, three rails, and a top; seven elements. That's an even simpler concept, even if making it practically useful is now more likely to demand better cantilever performance from the top. It has the additional advantage of being stable on uneven floors.

    Now let's make it a two-legged table. Now, to keep it from falling over, the legs need to have projecting feet. There also need to be outriggers to support the top. So, the very simple concept of a two-legged table involves two legs, four feet, four outriggers, one rail, and a top: twelve elements.

    A one-legged table is arguably even simpler in concept. It comprises at least eight elements: one leg, at least three feet, at least three outriggers, and a top. The reliance on cantilevers severely limits the size of a practical one-legged table.

    But what about the ultimate simple table concept, a no-legged table? It's simply a table top which floats in the air 30" above the floor. Nothing could be simpler than that, but getting it to work might involve electromagnets embedded in the floor, or a strong vacuum source in the ceiling, or an old guy in a turban concentrating very hard. Each of these relies on other systems being maintained, and in each case it adds up very quickly. I couldn't even guess at the number of elements involved.

    In the above example, the optimal simplicity is reached at the three-legged table. Making the concept simpler than that increases the practical complexity, with a silly level of conceptual simplicity resulting in a silly level of practical complexity. I think what I'm getting at is that though design elegance implies a degree of simplicity, there's more to it than that.

    Another dichotomy in design thinking is between what we might call the "one function, one component" approach on the one hand, and the "hold everything together with one big bolt" approach on the other. The former tends to multiply components but might arguably allow each component to be simpler. I first thought of it when I saw the way the parking brake works on my dad's '70s Mercedes-Benz: it's a tiny mechanical drum brake inside the hat part of the rear brake disc. I've latterly seen the same basic design used on a lot of other cars. It works well because the drum brake only has to be a parking brake and is the sort of brake which does that well, and the disc brake only has to be a service brake and is the sort of brake which does that well.

    The latter reduces the number of components and thus complexity and often weight, but may compromise or complicate the components themselves. I was surprised to find that my OT DD continued air-cooled VW practice on its rear wheels by having the hubs integrated into the rear brake drums. There is one component and not two on each side, at the price of having to pull the rear hubs in order to work on the brakes. Which of these two approaches is ultimately simpler, though?

    It is somewhat analogous to seriality v. parallelity of assembly. Seriality is component A bolts to component B threads into component C is clipped to component D, etc. Parallelity is components A, B, and C all variously attach to component D, which is something like a chassis frame or cylinder block. I don't think it's possible to have a car which doesn't involve both, but I'd say our older cars generally involve more parallelity and less seriality than modern cars. A "divorced" gearbox as used by many manufacturers during the Edwardian and Vintage eras (and by Morgan into the '50s) is a high-parallelity approach; a modern transverse fwd transaxle is a high-seriality approach. Again, which is really simpler?

    Moreover, consider that a cuckoo clock is an extremely large number of extremely simple parts, while a cellphone is a very small number of extremely complex parts. Surely our cars are more like cuckoo clocks and less like cellphones and, even if you've never really thought of it that way, isn't that a large part of why we like them?
     
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  17. So that’s how it all
    works !!! :p:D
     
    Desoto291Hemi and Ned Ludd like this.
  18. No sarcasm just needs this little face :rolleyes:
    Just tryin to help here. :D :D :D

    On the quad headlight deal here I have seen several posts and one very important bit of information on how they should work properly has been left out. Yes 24 V and yes several batteries or battery configurations will work. But you must and this is very important you must leave your left shoe untied at least 30 seconds after you energize the lights and before you deenergize them unless you are using a left handed glimmer switch in line or a third tail light, which may or may not be traditional. :rolleyes: :D
     
    raven likes this.
  19. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 4,040

    gene-koning
    Member

    3rd brake lights are traditional! My 48 Plymouth came with the brake light mounted on the center of the trunk lid. and it had a taillight mounted on each rear fender.

    Some of the posts on this thread really made me think hard. My head hurts from all that work, is that considered over thinking? Gene
     
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  20. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,094

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Over thinking? Who would do such a thing.
     
    Just Gary likes this.
  21. T. Turtle
    Joined: May 20, 2018
    Posts: 424

    T. Turtle

    Exactly. And, with the suspension uprates I made, my 64 Comet already handles better than any Mercedes Benz of the era (yes I had them. Those swing axles DO bite you in the behind, and you're always conscious of the fact when you drive them quickly). Once the front discs are fitted it will brake better too.
     
  22. wicarnut
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 9,052

    wicarnut
    Member

    I like the "KISS" system, Keep It Simple Stupid. Works for me.
     
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  23. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 9,606

    Rickybop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Dad: "What did you DO?!?"

    Me: "But I thought..."

    Dad: "No... you did NOT think."

    Sent from my VS835 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  24. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,094

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Honestly I think the dividing line is action being taken.

    thinking about it is good
    Thinking about it so much that you never actually make a choice or do anything is bad.

    I say that I over think things but truth be told I feel like I’m not invested in any of the questions enough to really feel like I’m over thinking it.

    more like I’m bench racing all the possibilities until I get to the weekend and can actually do something.

    I do ask a fuck load of questions but more so because I’m curious about very specific parts of things and how they work. Just how my brain is.

    End of the day though, shit or get off the pot right?
     
    Just Gary likes this.
  25. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,755

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    End of the day though, shit or get off the pot right?[/QUOTE]

    Lead, follow, or get out of the way!
     
  26. And sometimes you just have to shoot the engineer and start production...:)
     
  27. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    Or the accountant??? :p

    Jon.
     
  28. PIECRUST&RUST
    Joined: Nov 3, 2018
    Posts: 44

    PIECRUST&RUST
    Member
    from kansas

    I admire cars that are built to handle and drive like a modern car but, I much prefer the feel of manual brakes, manual steering, and the finicky nature of old cars. I was born in the 90's but grew up with old cars. Growing up in a world full of electronics does make it pretty fascinating to me though that something as complex as a car can work with absolutely no computer and everything is mechanical. I love the contrast of a purely mechanical thing in a world where my washing machine now connects to the internet.......

    My other half has taken a liking to old cars for there look and style but is completely baffled as to why I like the challenge of driving an old car. If you have to explain it they will never understand haha
     
    41 GMC K-18 likes this.
  29. lonejacklarry
    Joined: Sep 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,498

    lonejacklarry
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't think I am capable of over thinking. I would admit, however, to trying to think albeit usually not successfully..
     
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  30. I probably think enough for both of us my friend. My brain seldom shuts down. I tried Ritalin and all it did was wire me up like the daily double (which was kinda cool actually) so I guess that is not my problem. I tried talking with a brain doctor about it but he really couldn't keep up. guess I'll just have to live with it. o_Oo_Oo_O:eek::eek::oops::oops::D:D:D:D
     
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