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Folks Of Interest Do we expect too much or overthink things? Warning almost a rant

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by porknbeaner, Apr 3, 2020.

  1. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,385


    I started reading this thread, post by post by post, but not wanting to "strain my brain", I gave up. Like Desoto291Hemi's signature up above, "A man's got to know his limitations". Thank you Dirty Harry. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  2. RJP
    Joined: Oct 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,662

    from PNW

    Sounds like a nice truck. But if I read your answer correctly, by his improvements, he does want it to DRIVE like a late model, he just doesn't want it to LOOK like a late model.
  3. RJP
    Joined: Oct 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,662

    from PNW

    And where exactly does that old car stop being an old car? Disc brakes on straight axles? 5speeds behind flatheads? Tube shocks? Automatics? Air? 12v conversions? Open drive lines? A well executed Corvette suspension under a 40 Ford doesn't make it look like a Corvette, it just makes it a better handling 40 Ford.
  4. I think most of the things you listed would fly in my mind. The last mod, a Corvette suspension is just a bridge too far for me. Way too far. You may feel differently.
  5. CobraJoe
    Joined: Mar 19, 2018
    Posts: 56


    IDK, I think some people just want to change things. Back in '96, a friend of mine was building a Cobra Replica. He had never drove one or built one before. Rather than build it like it showed you in the assembly manual, he changed everything to "his" way. When I asked him why, he explained that it would be better. I told him that he hasn't even driven one, so why not build it the way you are supposed and decide if you even it like it before you redesign everything?.. Well, he was an Engineer so I should have known better. In the end it took him three years and a lot of trial and error to build something that should have been done in a few months, and in the end, was really no different/better IMO.
    I also had a 427 sideoiler with Weber 48 IDA's in a Cobra replica that I had built for myself and later sold to a friend. It was a nice period correct car with pin drive Halibrands, wool carpet, etc...
    The first thing he did was pull the engine, change the cam, get rid of the Webers and went to a single Holley 4bbl. Changed out the wheels to aftermarket. etc....
    In the end, he took a complete running and driving car and had it apart on his lift for the better part of two years.
    I guess some people just need to change things and make them their own. In the case of the 427, I swear if it had a 4 bbl on it when I sold it, he would have changed it to Webers.
    Gene, I got my drivers license in 1976 and in regards to working on cars in High School shop class, we really didn't have the electronic stuff to play with. Maybe because we were a smaller town, but we really didn't have a lot of foreign cars either, other than the occasional MG, Triumph or even Jaguar. We were taught to work on points ignitions and single carburetors. My first vehicle was a '66 Ford and all my friends cars that we worked on were Mustangs, Chevelles, Camaros and Barracudas. A couple of friends that were National record holders raced a '65 Chevelle and the other a '67 Camaro. The rest of us ran bracket cars in the '65-'70 range and we ran them all on bias ply tires and survived. Compared to today's cars, the drove and rode pretty crappy, and that is what I remember (and enjoy) when I think of old cars.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    Gasser 57 and Desoto291Hemi like this.
  6. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,254

    from NKy

    Man Im right here with everybody , I constantly here why no AC , why a straight axle , why points , why no disc brakes , and last but no lease you need a newer bike your older and need something that doesn’t need so much attention . What I need is for people to shut the hell up ! It’s mine built the way I want it with American workers thinking and engineering . Just old junk ! Like me !
    Gasser 57, Desoto291Hemi and CobraJoe like this.
  7. corncobcoupe
    Joined: May 26, 2001
    Posts: 5,088

    Staff Member

    Old stuff - Spark- Spark plugs / Carb / pump/ Fuel / twist on - off oil filter ( that you can see and get at )

    New stuff - Where's the spark packs, damn plastic washer fluid bladder is in the way, Wheres the injectors, Wheres the O2 sensor, Where's the Oil filter, Where's the Master Cylinder, Where's the 370.00 special wrench to get at that thing that some F'N computer says a code came up. Where's the other 422.00 special wrench to unbolt the hidden 4 main bolts to drop the front engine cradle to change the beer can size oil filter to fill with 0w-5 thin as water oil and then your gas cap that you may or may not have tighten just enough or not enough to keep setting off the check engine light - when a code doesn't come up - a suggestion from a college graduate auto technician ( no offense) says did you tighten your gas cap ?
    That's $ 122.00 pay at the front service desk.
    I watch enough TV - why would I want to watch a camera backing up ?
    Turning my neck from side to side is more needed exercise my doctor said I needed right ?

    But hey - that $370.00 and $ 422.00 special wrench required bending in ways my hands don't so no broken knuckles - right ?

    Nawww nothing to over think or rant about.
    That will be $ 792.00 for a .4 hours oil change including hazmat at the front desk.
    Have a good day.
    Roothawg, warbird1, Gasser 57 and 4 others like this.
  8. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 6,625

    from Michigan

    I enjoy the ambiance of vacuum powered windshield wipers.
    shhhuuu shhhuuu shhhuuu...
    ...and the terror of being blinded by spraying water when passing a semi truck on the expressway in the rain.
    Seriously... I'd miss it. LOL

    Sent from my VS835 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
  9. J'st Wandering
    Joined: Jan 28, 2004
    Posts: 1,688

    J'st Wandering

    Every change takes some of the character of the "old car" away. I put disc brakes on a Chrysler after I gave up on getting the old brakes to work well. That change took a little of the old car feel away. I have 12 volt systems on the flatheads. They start easier but I still like the sound of a 6 volt system cranking over. Newer lights have their advantages but the old lights with the yellow hew, again, have the "old car" feel. I have halogens on a Model A but probably won't do it again. I can go on, vega steering box, etc.

    Each change takes a little of the character of the old car away. It is the balance of what you value in the old car and what is a pain in the butt that you would like to avoid.
  10. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,979


  11. I'll jump in and out quick.
    I've played with"old cars" since the '60s.
    I try not to think about anything too much, ask my wife!
    For me personally it's always been trying to live in the moment.
    I was lucky to find out early that the fun comes from living on the edge.
    The fun comes when you are at the limit.
    If you are in a Model A built like a teenager would of had in the '50s
    you didn't have an interstate 4 lane to drive on. The fun came from sliding around
    the back roads on old bias plys, so that's the limit I would look for.
    It's different for any car but the driving to me after all is where the fun should be.
    Whatever the car I think more clearly when I'm driving in it than when I have to wrench on it.
    CobraJoe, Desoto291Hemi and Stogy like this.
  12. While I was in college, my daily driver was a worn out ‘68 GMC long bed truck. Someone had dropped a 327 into it, put straight pipes on, and changed the column shift auto to a 3 speed floor shift. The clutch required both feet to push in, and the steering was so sloppy it required almost constant steering corrections. Up to this point in my life, I had only driven old cars, so this was a “normal” set of conditions. I had no problems wheeling that truck around, and I thoroughly enjoyed driving it. One day, my friend decided that he wanted to drive my truck. After watching me drive it, he thought it would be easy. He had never driven anything more than a few years old. After about 5 minutes, he gave up. He declared the truck an “old piece of shit”, and that it was undriveable, mostly because it didn’t drive like his Jeep Wrangler. I told him it wasn’t supposed to drive like a new car. He never did get it.
    Joined: Jan 24, 2010
    Posts: 1,748

    from IDAHO

    Well Stated Sir And It Wise To Decide If We Are In The Hot Rod Hobby Or Storage Business 77377367_1804667796333992_7373694579276513280_n.jpg ...
  14. 58 Yeoman
    Joined: Aug 7, 2009
    Posts: 463

    58 Yeoman
    from Lacon, IL

    Hey, wait a minute. Let's not gloss over the original question. Is it okay if I use chinesium relays for the headlights on my 63 Galaxie? I could hide them somewhere on the radiator support.

    Cobra Joe, I'm 10 years older than you, but I feel the same way, although I do have electronic dizzies on both cars. Both cars have standard drum brakes, and the Galaxie is pretty much stock except for the dizzy and chrome wheels. The Chevy came with a 283 powerglide, and dealer installed a/c. It now has a 350 (the 283 died) and three on the tree. Also, the a/c is gone.
    CobraJoe likes this.
  15. BoogittyShoe
    Joined: Feb 18, 2020
    Posts: 330


    Like I wrote in the steel v. 'glass thread, "(+/-) It's all a matter of personal perspective." (per + spectere ; "to look")We all (ALL) have our own set of eyes, our own thoughts, opinions, experiences, blah blah.
    Let's say I pull into a gas station beside a '30 roadster built in the late 40s. No hood, no fenders, Flathead, Strombergs, wide whites. He sees my disk brakes on a tube axle. I see that he is doing his best not to snicker or shake his head " No". He is thinking "That ain't a hot rod. This is a hotrod." (Because of his personal definition)
    No way I can think his car isn't, because I know that it IS the definition of a hot rod.
    But, feeling... what?... belittled?... shunned?... excluded?..., I flip my ignition switch, hit the starter button, and possibly instantly hear my sbc going "boogitty boogitty boogitty boogitty" and slowly purr away. I make an easy 1st-2nd shift with my Moon chrome ball on a Hurst stick attached to a TKO 500. Then punch it. It roars and spins the tires and tries to get sideways, so I let off in one second. I look back at him in the mirror and with an invisible smile, think "Is too."
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  16. Tri-power37
    Joined: Feb 10, 2019
    Posts: 510


    All of these are great posts and I have read each one with interest but I think Gasser 57 nailed it in just a few words with “paralyzation by analyzation”. Sometimes we are all guilty of making things more complicated than they need be.

    The people on this site are all about respecting old cars - some are strict and some sneak in more modern (partially hidden)upgrades. Some old cars and hot rods go way to far not respecting the old car vibe - to me the worst is LS engine in a hot rod.

    It’s a free country you can do what you want to your car .
  17. donsz
    Joined: Nov 23, 2010
    Posts: 211


    All intersting perspectives; but no matter what, a little chrome is still O.K.; right?
  18. BoogittyShoe
    Joined: Feb 18, 2020
    Posts: 330


    Awww. We can't see the chromed engine.
  19. Actually it drives like a truck, just rides and handles better. The idea was not to make it anything like a late model, just to improve it. No one expects anything with live axles to handle and or ride like a late model vehicle.
    LOU WELLS likes this.
  20. Ya know I actually expected this one to either get deleted or roll off into cyberspace. Maybe that is overthinking it.

    I got to say something here and hopefully no one will take offense. I scrolled and read and no one not once called anyone a bad name or nuthin'. Good thoughts and thanks for giving me a minute to dump some crap out of my head.
  21. BoogittyShoe
    Joined: Feb 18, 2020
    Posts: 330


    But to answer your question-
    Yes and no. Sometimes. Maybe.
    porknbeaner likes this.
  22. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 6,625

    from Michigan

    "Thinking is the hardest work there is. That's probably the reason why so few engage in it"

    - Henry Ford

    Sent from my VS835 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
    raven, carbking, CobraJoe and 3 others like this.
  23. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,081

    Ned Ludd

    In life in general, i.e. outside the hot rod world, I'm inclined to the position that there is no such thing as overthinking. More thinking is always better than less thinking. More is wrong in the world due to not thinking enough than to thinking too much. It's not how much you think as how well you think. Thinking has to go somewhere: if it goes around in circles you're doing it badly.

    I'll say this, though. I've found that the further your dream is out of immediate reach, the more ambitious your dream is inclined to become. I don't know about the rest of you but I think about the cars I want to build a huge amount of the time, so much so that designing in my head is an activity in its own right: and the less I can actually physically do, the more time I spend designing in my head, the more innovative (or just weirder) my plans become. It's a necessary effect of being totally absorbed by something which is by its nature relatively expensive and time-consuming.

    As for turning old cars into new cars, I believe the old-new dichotomy as commonly articulated is fundamentally false. The prevailing view of technological history is basically linear: a simple progression from "primitive" to "advanced" – from "worse" to "better". This implies such ideas as that at any level of "advancement" a technology will always manifest in substantially the same form (derived from the idea that technological progress is self-driven and proof against any external influence.) As a result, the idea is that technological progress can only go one way: if you try to improve a carb you'll eventually invent EFI. I reject this view completely and utterly.

    In fact, at a sociological or philosophical level you could say hot rodding is all about the rejection of this linear view, and the assertion that there is more than one way to skin a cat, albeit not necessarily articulately. Hot rodding was always about emulating performance advances achieved by the OEMs but on hot-rodders' own terms, i.e. without monetary payment to the OEMs, without technological enclosure by the OEMs, without curation of the experience by the OEMs. (This last idea of curatedness is a huge part of what bothers me personally about new cars, but I'm still struggling to get my head around it.)

    A progression from "worse" to "better" cannot be simple if the definitions of "worse" and "better" are not straight-forward in the situation, but specific, complex, and different for different participants in the situation. For instance, you could argue that the evolution of the Model T firewall through its various iterations had more to do with the politics of labour relations than with cost or performance. Likewise, the development of transmission technology in the USA was undeniably related to an agenda to make personal mobility universally dependent on private motor vehicles and was therefore dominated by the need to eliminate as much as possible of the skill requirement to drive a car, rather than any other consideration. This was an essentially political project, which was not viable before the cartelizing effects of the New Deal. Transmission development pre- and post-New Deal was not a simple progression but a definite change of approach. The science was the same, but the engineering which had money spent on it was suddenly radically different. The engineers were the same, but the picture they had of the driver they were designing for was suddenly – though probably quite unconsciously – radically different. But be that as it may.

    The point is, it is possible to imagine different automotive technological developments to the ones which actually happened. Not only that, many of us are doing it all the time. I'd go as far as to say that it is the one constant thing which distinguishes an interesting build from a boring one, for me at least. It can involve a really enormous amount of thinking, though.
    raven and carbking like this.
  24. 1low52
    Joined: Oct 26, 2007
    Posts: 296


    Here I go overthinking the original post lol.
    (With pictures that we HAMBER'S love)
    I love old cars.
    I love driving old cars.
    I love driving safe old cars.
    I mostly love driving all old cars.
    I guess what I'm trying to say is, for me, there are times when 'drive' means different things.
    My 50 Chev. has original suspension(57 rear), six/multi carbs/3spd/etc. built the way I like it and love to drive it. Thousands were built similar and many miles driven by millions in another time.
    But there were times when I wanted to have to 'drive' with a little less effort.
    My 64 wagon has 327 PG original suspension(lower springs/air shocks) just the way I like it and love to drive it. Thousands were built similar and many miles driven by millions in another time.
    There are many options to suit many needs based on many opinions and choices.
    (I even have a 95 Coupe DeVille when I need more and less lol)
    At times like this when we are dealing with so much in the world, thanks for the diversion Beaner. IMG_3736-EFFECTS.jpg 1964-chevrolet-impala-9-passenger-station-wagon-2.JPG
    Ron Funkhouser and Gasser 57 like this.
  25. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 2,779

    Lloyd's paint & glass

    Nailed it ;) Sick of being told i should put an LS motor in that old car so it'll be reliable. I tell them to learn how to work on a car or tune a carburetor :D And my worst problem has become you bunch of dicks! I catch myself overthinking everything i do because i don't wanna hear one of you bitch at me :p Love you dickheads though :rolleyes:
  26. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,979


    I know Richard Head.
    raven likes this.
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,065


    'Beaner you picked a scab. But hey everyone, let's not start discussing infection potential and virus and chemical hazards. It's a cliche' a'ight? (that's slang for alright to you old fucks like me). At least it's not a forehead scab that bleeds profusely with relative ease.

    Expecting too much, you bet your finned aluminum oil pan so many do. Now frankly I could go on a tearing rant about not only that but the "latest fashion" of acting out in ways most of us would perceive as simply stupid. Right up front, there's not a lotta stupid within these pages and it's one of the reasons I'm still here. Maybe some of us are edgy dealing with that pandemic outside of our chosen love for this stuff, and maybe that fashion statement makes others act out that way without such intention. Also outside of "this" there's a whole bunch of warnings, concerns, onesy-twosy examples of catastrophy, and the typical knee-jerk reactions to all of it. Some fuck stick burns down his mom's trailer and Bevis and Butthead has to be removed from MTV. Pryor burned his ass up and we got warning labels on lighters. Irons have a warning label not to use it on clothes while worn. Is it now a habit of sorts?

    Relays? Fuck me, relays on everything. Relays to run the relay since the info was relayed all across the high performance spectrum not long ago. Same with doing a wiring harness with a zip tie every 1-2 inches. Really? And then leave it exposed besides. Ask when that became a fashion and the answer is when somebody had seen a race car that way. I asked a guy why he did that and he said so he can see if a wire was a problem should something come up. I acted like I was picking my nose when I replied, "Wow, cool..." I'm sure some day all house wiring will be on the walls so we can make sure it's not a wire problem, right? Logic? Out the fuckin window. A little honesty would say "I thought it looked cool and makes a nice detail." In an 8 second bracket car it does look ok, and a relay to run a 400 GPH fuel pump is smart, but to run everything? Only if it's some Euro tainted new car on today's showroom floors. In the old car world one of the most sophisticated domestics, Packard, had 2 relays 1 for the starter and 1 for the horns. Lights? Nope. Cigar lighters? Nope. Radio? Not there either but in all fairness a radio set came with a separate dynamo for the main power, and that ran on a 6V motor. They also had headlights that were way more badass than out beloved Fords and other marques. 3 filaments and pretty freakin bright too. And as I commented in other topics before, the way all of this is looked upon now one would think our highways were littered with cars that burned to the ground or just failed due to mecahnical inferiority. Funny though, it's not unusual to see a 30s Packard with really high miles. 70-80-90 thousand miles isn't a shock.

    My answer? Stop it. Get the OG (that's "original" in today's vernacular, again for old fucks like me) service manual for the car you're doing. Follow that engineer's lead. Why? Hey the fuckin thing is still here isn't it? Unless you're planning to put a computer controlled double throw down fuel injected independent suspended 20" wheeled modern drive system under it with the required 4 miles of wire, 3 computers, 12 relays and ultraviolet lighting then do what they did. If not you really don't even belong here. "Well do ya, punk?" (that's Dirty Harry for all you young fucks out there)
    Charlie K, raven, 37hotrod and 7 others like this.
  28. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 2,779

    Lloyd's paint & glass

    Preach it my brother!!! ^^^
    CobraJoe and 427 sleeper like this.
  29. Expecting too much ,,,
    Seems I could get going and piss off nearly everyone reading in some way.

    You know that thing they say -
    no matter how hard you try you can’t make everyone happy- but with just a little effort you piss everyone off.

    Through my colorful travels I’ve personally found that thinking anything inanimate all the way thru has a better outcome.

    Follow the axiom of form follows function and you’ll be good. If it looks wrong or goofy it most likely is.

    Maybe you’ve got a vision that nobody else sees. It doesn’t mean that you’re wrong it means you’re going to be lonely seeing it.

    Undebatable and without question that LS engines have no place here on the hamb. But you guys applying a blanket slandering and hating on them are completely clueless of their benefits and potential, some sort of heard mentality I guess. Don’t bring your cat to the big dog show right?

    Freshman ask questions, but some of this crap questioning and overthinking is preschoolers level of understanding. There is obviously no thinking happening at all but it’s called overthinking. Car related questions sure but equivalent to cap or off toothpaste or TP over/under (if you’re lucky enough to have it. Some guys, Full grown men ask car equivalent of what should I have for breakfast. I’d expect more, is that unreasonable? IDK I rebuilt my first car completely, every system and complete body and paint, finished at 16 yrs old. Built a ground up mini-bike in the 5th grade, that was the first successful one. Earlier attempts that that at mechanical things were made.

    There’s nothing completely new underneath the sun moon and starts and certainly no one can know all of it. This Mechanical reasoning and theory has been written about for centuries, thousands of years. Read a fucking book then ask a question,,, now if you don’t know the first thing then ask what book you would read. Yeah expecting too much.

    Anything worth doing is worth doing right! or is that “if it’s worth doing someone else will do it” ? Or is it “if you want it done right you’ve got to do it yourself”? Or “it’s best to let a professional do this for you”? Did someone teach you how to bitch about people not doing their job but neglected to teach you how to do anything???? Yep expecting too much again.

    How about work ethics,,, I’ve tried nothing and am now out of options. I need help!!! I’ve never helped anyone because I need help. I put my time in (haven’t done one freaking thing of value but I was there) now pay me. I can pass with an F if I do my homework. Everyone gets a trophy!!! M F that pisses me right off probably because I’m expecting too much.

    My wife says my expectations are to high and that if I lowered them slightly just a little I’d find it easier to be accepting of this crap. I told her she’s overthinking it :D!
    She sees the world going to hell in a handbasket and when I asked her why she thought that was,,, well what do you think. It’s because lots of people have lowered their performance, their expectations, their experience, and the basics of understanding. They lack the ability to reason.

    Oh and WTF is with these assholes trying to jump the green light and turning left in front of you now. Sorry just random

    Cars are no different. Hell man horses and buggies with wooden wheels and dirt roads still work just as good as ever. Doing that has a completely different ambiance than riding in a car. Riding in an old car has a feeling that’s unlikely to match anything else. There’s 2 ways to look at changing up an old car... you stuff the new latest bigger better idea into the old car or you eviscerate the old car and drape the old carcass over a new sole. Neither one is going to get you the old car vibe. That brings up a few points.
    When the first model A or T went onto a 32 frame I wonder what his peers thought.? What about when the first flat head got tossed for a SBC humm and in a Ford yet.

    Old stuff begets old stuff until we start monkeying around with it. How might one get any ideas to monkey with their old stuff or the notions that their old stuff could be better? By looking at the new stuff of course and figuring how to get some of the better new stuff mixed into their old stuff. This is why the traditional hot rods are better. Most were built by guys who had ability to reason, guys with work ethics, guys who had vision, guys who weren’t all full of modern day thinking flawed filters. When you add the modern day thinking into hot rod building with out and desire to seek understanding or the ability to reason,, well then you get to exactly where this almost rant starts. There always has and always will be some guy who says what his version of traditional hot rodding is. Just like they back then did I’m using what I had. I completely 100 percent guarantee you they ignored the definition of traditional, lack understanding, and fall short on reasoning skills completely missing the boat.

    Hey, if you have understanding, and you just installed some headlights that actually let you see at night that draw much more amperage than the switch was designed to handle - you already know you need a relay. However if one of the monkey see monkey do has surfaced they will have loaded the board with things lacking reason or understanding, never having read a book on the theory behind the expectations, doing little to no thinking or problem solving and calling that underthink over thinking because they’ve lived in an environment where redefining their bullshit Is acceptable.

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