Do copper gaskets and aluminum heads really cause problems??

I have a 50 flathead 8BA.i am changing out the copper gaskets and going to the graphtite ones.I have offy heads and was told that electrolysis can occur when you have aluminum heads and copper gaskets,that real problems can happen.yet today i spoke to C&G ford parts about the gaskets they sell and they told me always use copper gaskets with aluminum heads..so flathead heavy weights out there what is the deal...can you or cant you use the copper with aluminum head??...thanks

 

Aluminum is a less 'noble' element and copper is a bit more 'noble'...check this chart. The closer metals are to each other the less problem. If you put something like a zinc slug it the system then all activity will occur to the zinc so you can gauge the speed of decay and replace the slug as needed.

 

so is that a yes or no?.

 

Any flathead guys want to weigh in on this question?

 

having a good ground strap from the block to the body and frame will reduce most electrolysis in the cooling system

 

Anode in a cooling system deals with incorrect grounding between the engine and frame to a point. Semi truck water filters generally have sacrificial components to deal with the erosion due to ____________. electrolosis.
An additive to coolant called by big truck folks as "DCA" is a liquid treatment for coolant driven corrosion to aluminum parts and the radiators.
Does static electricty in a water coolant erode softer metals? Do you need to have a grounding wire between your engine block and the radiator too to prevent? Or is it chemical/electrical? Does distilled water make that much of a difference?
And to throw this in, a big truck mechanic that's 10 years older than me and more experience with dealing with many truck parts failures TOLD ME to pour in a bottle of coolant additive when I filled my new radiatior and dry fired engine. The country boy that gave me that advice can also diagnose truck electronic engine and auto shift transmission problems. Might mean he knows something about something.

 

YES. when you stack up dissimilar metals you are creating a galvanic action. In effect, you are making a battery. It WILL corrode. Just use the graphite gaskets and you'll be ok.

 

Theoretically, there will be electrolysis happening even if you don't use copper gaskets. A good coolant will stop most of that. Additionally, using a sacrificial zinc anode will greatly reduce it from happening. You can buy one for about $5 online or autozone. It's a zinc stick on the end of a brass plug.

What happens is the zinc is consumed before the aluminum is, taking all those free floating electrons out of the equation and leaving your aluminum alone.

 

If you prepare the copper gaskets properly, there will be no problems with aluminum heads. A couple coats of Pematex copper gasket spray (or simlar) and your good to go.

 

man i dont know all about the scientific things happening but i hope you can because i used copper head gaskets on a high compression 355 i built with al. heads.they were hangin on the wall and it was 1.00 am so i grabbed them. car still runs.been about 4 yrs since i put them on.

 

This^^^

I have been doing this for 40 or so years and the Ol' Man before me. He didn't start mechanicing until the '30s though so he probably didn't have a clue what he was doing.

 

You can spray graphite gaskets too though they are intended to be used dry. A friend of my Dad's used to use silver paint. I've had good luck with Fel-Pro and "Best". I'm sure anything you choose will work fine unless there's a problem with the surfaces.

 

right on tommy,i have read a few articles on the galvanic reaction between copper and aluminum and it seens that copper will sacrifice the aluminum causing corrosion.And those after market heads are not cheap,i will go with the graphtite gaskets this time.Also on the drivers side of the block at the front of the engine where the head meets the block there is a green stain which indicates that some reaction with the copper is occuring.

 

My Grandfather once told me: " Never mix Aluminum & Copper on Chimney Flashing." I was probably just 7 and just looked at him funny.

 

It also means that you have a leak.

 

Is having a liquid cooled engine the reason for corrosion? Many air cooled motorcycles have aluminum heads,copper head gaskets and an iron cylinder....Never heard of any corrosion problems.

 

It takes liquid to set up electrolisis. It is actually not the unlike metals that are the problem it is the water. Water is a glutton, the cleaner the water the more gluttonous it is. It will try to leach any mineral that it can from whatever is available.

That is why deionized water (the cleanest available) is kept in either glass or plastic containers. A cooling system with the proper additives will come real close to completely curing the problem.

 

For what it is worth I do use that gasket type against those differing types of metals. BUT... I anneal my copper head gasket and allow it to cool before I install the gasket and the aluminum head. It has worked for me and this engine has 10.5: 1 compression. I retorque the head bolts several times after one hour engine running times.
Normbc9

 

x2 on the copper gasket spay........worked really well on my '35 Slantback with no issues for years.

 

Yep i do porknbeaner,i was losing water,no overheating or bubbles in the coolant,i believe i have a leaking head gasket as opposed to a blown one.so a change out is in the works.

 

Modern antifreeze protects against corrosion. You can take apart a neglected engine and the coolant passages are pristine though the coolant was never changed. In the old days (before the 80s) you took apart an old engine and the aluminum parts were all eaten up.

 

It happens, could be there there is an imperfection in the head or the block. Sometimes the deck on the block isn't real flat, and it takes some extra torquing or some stop leak to cure it.

I prefer either a copper or steel shim gasket on a flat head for two reasons, one they are reusable to a certain extent and the other is the compression boost. Granted it isn't much but every little bit counts or at least in 'bean logic it does. That said I have nothing against a modern gasket either. Piece of mind is worth way more than the little advantage that a shim gasket is going to give you.

Properly prepped I probably wouldn't suggest changing the gasket but it is leaking and you have to pull the head to address the problem anyway. I have in the past seen aluminum head and even iron flat heads eaten completely up, but if I had to guess I would guess that those engines were probably running water and not a chemical coolant. While water cools better it is real nasty stuff, clean or dirty.

 

just an update,i swapped out the copper head gaskets with new felpro ones,the copper had some integrity issues,no breaks in the gasket but thinning,i could see where water was getting passed the gasket,one of the cylinder pistons was pretty clean compared to the others,.Where i thought i had a leak at the front of the head on the drivers side was where it was happening.No leaking bolts but i had to flush the engine of the water that was there from the leaking gasket.Ran the engine three times did the torque down sequence and no loss of water from the rad and no water in the oil anymore

 

wat material is youre radiator made of , if its an old one its prolly made of copper too
if you put a zink anode in there you should be ok
it helps if you use the right antifreese too , the stuff they use at volkswagen for their modern engines seem to be pretty good and has stuff in there to prevents electrolisis

 

Believe the anti-corrosive agent in antifreeze has Zinc. This, and the anode maintenance sched should
limit the ability to corrode. The liquid provides an 'electrolye' media once ions dissolve into it.
As usual, P'n'B-er speaks wisdom!

 

It is all about dis-similar metals. You have an iron block, so that will also eat your aluminum heads. Do as others have said and use a zinc anode, problem solved

 

Why on earth would you run a solid copper gasket on anything that is not "O" ringed? 1st they don't seal well (non-compressable) and 2nd they cost way more than a Best composition and 3rd they are a pain in the ass! The only advantage is in a high compression high cylinder pressure application. The minimum you need to do is:
1. "O" ring the head or block
2. Use good quality studs
3. Use RTV around water passages
4. Anneal the gasket
Note: you can reuse them multiple times when attended to above. I label them with an engraver as to which motor which side and how thick. Often i'll add the date we installed

 

As far as electrolysis I'm sure it happens if the engine is run long enough. Mine never ran more than seconds at a time.

 

Two different metals and an electrolyte make a battery. Traditional green antifreeze becomes more acidic at it ages causing the aluminum to eat away and is as bad today as it ever was. We see this in our shop on a regular basis, usually the aluminum in heater cores and radiators are the sacrificial leaky part. Our customers that have coolant flushed about every three years don't have the problem. You can see the process when the coolant ages if you put the positive lead of a volt meter in the flowing coolant and ground the other lead. .5 volts is bad and I have seen 7 volts. Best to change coolant before voltage can be read.

 

Bringing this older thread back up due to recent article I read.
After doing a google search, I am no closer to the answer of which coolant to use.
I have always used the "green" type in my older cars, one with Hudson 306 straight six flathead and
53 Studebaker with a transplanted SBC 350. Both are using aluminum radiators.
Anyone have more recent info on the proper coolants to use in these older motors?