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Technical Disclaimer when selling?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by LongT, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. LongT
    Joined: May 11, 2005
    Posts: 957

    LongT
    Member

    I asked this a few years ago but can neither find nor remember the responses. Have any of you written any sort of disclaimer when selling a hot rod. Either for no warranty or safety?

    Thanks,
    Bill
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,656

    squirrel
    Member

    there might be some laws that make it so either you don't have to, or it won't matter if you do.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  3. No Warranty Implied..........Sold As Is.:D
     
  4. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 2,017

    trollst
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you have to write a disclaimer to the purchaser, don't sell it to him, he'll try to bite you. A reasonable car guy buying a car knows it's his the minute he drives or hauls it away.
     

  5. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,395

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    As is Condition! So far so good..
    In NY. state that covers your ass, I went to court on the receiving end of a bs. 65 Chevelle Deal, long story short engine was "Said" to be this, Engine didn't make it off the trailer, tore down, wiped out bearings,7 matching pistons etc... Small claims, Receipt said As is! Ya...

    I will say this, My M.O. is tell'm everything wrong on a driver, an talk'm out of a project... Made a Lot of friends, Hundreds of car's later...
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  6. As is,if it breaks in two pieces both belong to the buyer.

    I have sold a few hot rods here on the hamb and I tell the potential buyer everything I thing is wrong with the car,I have had a few of the guys tell me I over dramatized the faults and the cars were much better than I stated.

    Be honest! HRP
     
  7. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 3,153

    oldolds
    Member

    Federal law states that all vehicle sales between private individuals are As-Is. That was one of the best things that they ever did when they started making dealers put that warranty paper on used cars. It defined the term As-Is. It helped the dealers and the private individuals that sell cars.
     
  8. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,269

    wvenfield
    Member

    No. If it needs something I will divulge that but no.........

    I can understand if someone is paying top dollar from a dealer but nothing I sell will be top dollar stuff.
     
  9. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,043

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As is where is no warranty.
    I sold a 62 Chev Impala that I had been driving daily to a kid in the mid 70's for 250.00 and a couple of days later he and his dad coming to my house complaining that I sold it with bad upper A frame bushings. I ended up putting the A frame bushings in it just to shut the old man up. It only cost 10 bucks for the bushings and an hour in my driveway to put them on and they were happy but I sure hadn't made any money on that car to begin with it was just the one too many cars that I had. Sold a Pinto that I had driven daily for a year with no problems and the second day the guy had it the starter crapped out. I lucked out on that one because I told him if he bought the starter I would put it in. Car was one with the 1200 cc engine and a pain in the butt to change starters on but he was happy and drove the car for a long time after that. Since then they get a bill of sale saying as is where is no warranty or guarantee.
    Had a friend sell a car that he had been driving all the time to a kid and the kid blew the engine the second night he had the car. Kid's old man was raising hell about the car having a bad engine and wanting the kid's money back until my friend came up with a couple of guys who were when the kid blew the engine racing one of his friends.
    Most of us sell our hotrods in good faith and represent the car to be exactly what it is with this chassis with these mods, this engine with the list of pieces and the number of miles. Still we see threads on here and other places where guys bought cars that weren't as represented, That Is where the buyer should have some recourse as it wasn't what the seller represented it to be.
     
  10. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,588

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The private sale of a car hereabouts has always included a 'taillight warranty'.
    As far as you could see the taillights, it was.......
     
  11. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 4,612

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    There is some level of fuckery involved with dealers depending on the particular state, the issue is generally whether said level of fuckery is also applied to private sales. Dealers are generally subject to what's called an "implied warranty" or somesuch. Some states require a safety or pollution emissions inspection before sale. A few states require a notary public witness before sale.

    Sometimes it involves for example whether or not a defect that was not apparent until after the sale, was known to the seller at the time of sale. If it can be proven this was the case, in some states the car may (in theory) be returned for a refund.

    As the number of outright morons grows larger, the laws in many instances really start to reflect this. Be very careful, research the laws in your state before making what could be an expensive mistake.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
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  12. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 984

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Suppose the buyer were to pay you cash, drive away and run over a kid 2 blocks from your house, and he doesen't have insurance? He could say he was on a test drive, and you would have a fight on your hands. Whatever you say or the buyer says doesn't mean squat if the deal goes awry later. People lie, then it is their word against yours. Further, whatever federal or state law says, they can still sue you. You can be right ethically, and legally, but you still have to defend yourself, and that can be costly, and you still could lose. When selling, I always write up a bill of sale that says it is sold as is, with no guaranty, and that the buyer owns and is responsible for the car from this moment forward.. I get the buyers info from his drivers license on the bill of sale and we both sign it and get a copy. I have had tickets send to me in the mail for vehicles I have sold, and I sent the bill of sale to the violations bureau and the tickets went away. I have had buyers ask me for $ fix things days or weeks after the sale. I refer to the bill of sale, and it shuts them right down. It's a quick easy and free layer of protection.
    Likewise, when I am buying, if the seller makes claims that influenced my decision to buy, and they are claims that I can not easily verify on the spot, I write them into the bill of sale: Seller warrants that the engine was rebuilt with .030 over forged pistons...etc. You'd be surprised how many sellers start backtracking when you put their story in writing.
     
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  13. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 1,072

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Back in the 1980s my boss at the service station was taken to small claims court over a family car he'd sold (OT late '60s convertible). A week later the oil pump failed and the engine subsequently destroyed. The two sides presented their cases and the judge ordered a recess. My boss came back to the station very discouraged. He said the judge was a woman who clearly knew nothing about cars and he was going to get screwed. He happily ate those words. When they reconvened, the judge had done her homework: she announced her research showed there was no reasonable expectation that my boss could have "known" the condition of the oil pump, and futhermore, the driver was responsible for damage to the engine caused by continued driving after the instuments indicate a loss of pressure. My boss was ordered to give the plaintiff the value of an oil pump (less than $100) and the plaintiff got to pay for his own new engine.

    Anyway, pretty sure my boss wrote "as is" on the bill of sale, but that didn't stop the buyer from trying.
     
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  14. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 15,336

    Paul
    Editor

    I always state "in as is condition" and sometimes include "for parts" in hand written bill of sale.
    first for me, second for buyer
     
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  15. Up here the government ( mto) wants you to buy a used vehicle package

    Gives the cars history , past owners, if it’s branded, last recorded mileage and some other stuff

    Also has a “ bill of sale” you and the buyer fill out and states car sold AS IS , no warranty implied or specified ... or something along those lines. For the $30 bucks it’s worth I always buy one when selling a car and make the seller of the car I’m buying get one.

    It’s cheap insurance on both ends and avoids any kind of shady fuckery.
     
  16. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,017

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Yes, laws do vary by State. And, there is no easy defense against being sued...only defending yourself if you are sued. A Notary Public lends absolutely no credibility to any document EXCEPT to attest that the signature(s) were witnessed and are of the persons claimed. The language in the document can be a pack of lies, the Notary doesn't have any responsibility for that. Only the signatories do

    When selling a vehicle that is a bit 'sketchy', a Bill of Sale that boldly states "this vehicle is being sold for the purpose of junk, salvage or rebuilding and the Seller makes no claims about it's fitness for any particular purpose" is a good thing, so long as your Buyer signs acknowledging that.

    Also, most States have laws that say the Seller is the legal owner of the vehicle "until Title passes to the Buyer". This is a big deal........IF you do not have a title on hand to fully assign to the Buyer, with his name appearing in the appropriate spaces, that car is still yours no matter that he has paid you. So, if there is an accident, or worse, death/bodily injury, you and/or your insurance company could be in a very difficult position.

    Ray
     
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  17. I had a hassle with a buyer only once; I sold a VW bus that my 2nd X owned at the time years ago. I knew it ran OK as the motor had been rebuilt not too long before she bought it, but really didn't know much beyond that. If you're not familiar with VW buses, they always have rebuilt motors when for sale because those 1600 air-cooled fours weren't big enough to push those around at freeway speeds (the owners manual spelled out how you were supposed to stop and let the motor cool for 15 minutes once per hour if traveling at 60 mph or more.... seriously. Nobody did that, that's why they always had new motors... LOL).

    Anyway, a 'macho' hippie chick showed up and I offered to show her anything she wanted to see. She didn't quite call me a scammer, but insisted she wanted it inspected by a third party. I said no problem, but you have to pay for the inspection whether you buy it or not and she agreed. I meet her at the VW dealer, they stick it up on a rack for 1/2 hour or so, they pronounce it in fine shape. She buys it..... Two weeks later she's back, complaining that it needs brakes and a couple of other small items, wants her money back because I 'misrepresented' it. I pointed out that I didn't represent anything, if she has a beef take it up with the dealer who she paid to check these things... After some huffing and puffing, she leaves and I never hear from her again...
     
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  18. "As is, where is. No warranties implied or otherwise. Free of liens and encumbrances." is what is written on any bill of sale I give.
    or "For parts only"
     
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  19. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 4,612

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Hippie chick did that because of a law specific to Washington state. It's an attempt, well meaning perhaps (though maybe not) to force private sellers to adhere to the type of laws and regulations commercial dealers are required to follow. At issue again is "implied warranty"; and the magic word here "misrepresentation".

    It's very difficult to prove though, and she still would have to take you to court if you decide not to refund her money and take the bus back.

    My problem with this kind of thing is, if I'm selling something, that by definition means I don't want it anymore. I don't want to see it again.

    When you buy something from me, all sales are final unless otherwise noted. If this arrangement is not to your liking then shop somewhere else.
     
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  20. EW_
    Joined: Apr 10, 2008
    Posts: 82

    EW_
    Member
    from DFW

    I don't know about other states but when selling a car in Texas, you should remove the license plates and fill out the TX DMV form VTR-346. Otherwise, expect tickets, toll bills, etc.
     
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  21. I agree with most of the two posts but I believe an accident is going to be charged to the driver not the car owner. Maybe if you are a corporation that loaned a car out they might come after you because of certain restrictions in your insurance policy(and they are looking for deep pockets). Now if it's a hit and run and they track down the owner, you might be in trouble trying to prove you were not the driver. This is where a Bill of Sale and signed over title could save your ass. JMO, I could be way off on this.
     
  22. MAD MIKE
    Joined: Aug 1, 2009
    Posts: 608

    MAD MIKE
    Member
    from 94577

    If you don't have the original pink slip, get a title transfer from DMV or a notice of transfer and release of liability. Most of these documents can be done online or printed up and done at place of sale.

    I would type up a bill of sale(in triplicate) with wording such as,

    " I, (name of seller), have sold a (year/make/model) as-is with no implied warranty and release liability to new owner(name of buyer). Buyer has agreed to the condition of the vehicle AS-IS.
    Mileage of odometer is ##,###, on MM/DD/YYYY. *note actual mileage may have exceeded odometer*
    For the agreed upon price of $##,###."
    *Both parties should print, sign, and date their name.*


    I would even go as far as to get their drivers license information.

    With smartphones, there wouldn't be a reason not to take a few pictures of the car on the day of its sale. If it is a running car take a quick video driving/stopping and idling.

    I've had a relative sell a car to a neighbor and a month later the OT cars CV axle shit the bed(late 80's, uber expensive part). Neighbor took relative to court, neighbor won. Judge stated had relative made a bill of sale and stated 'AS-IS' this would never had gotten to court. I believe the car was 'sold' for nothing as the neighbor was in dire straights and the relative was just being kind.

    Had an apprentice sell his Mustang. Very nice well taken care of car, sold it did all the paperwork and transfers, pictures taken, bill of sale and had his brother take a video of the buyer driving off. Dickhead buyer wrecked it on the way home and tried to blame the apprentice saying it was a 'test drive', then tried to have the apprentice have the car fixed with his insurance by calling the insurance company claiming hit and run. It just got more and more bizarre. IIRC it went to court but ended up very badly for dickhead as the apprentice had pics/doc/video showing dickhead drive off after sale.

    C.Y.A.
    Handshakes don't mean much anymore. If someone gets jumpy/sketchy over documentation then they are up to something, or are just paranoid. Find another buyer.
     
  23. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,686

    belair
    Member

    In Texas, the tag goes with car, not the seller. And if the car is in your name, you (the owner of record, the LEGAL owner at the time of the incident) CAN be sued for damages the person you sold the car to (but never put in their name) caused.
     
  24. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,017

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    If someone is driving your car (not stolen) and is stopped by the police for traffic offense, and gets a ticket, they, the driver, are liable for the traffic offense. If an officer does not stop the car, the offense is either camera recorded or a non-moving violation, you MAY get the ticket and have to prove you weren't responsible for the offense.

    However, Insurance is attached to the car, NOT the driver. To be clear, when someone is driving (what is legally) your car and is involved in an accident, it is your insurance that will be paying any liability that arises from the accident, as well as collision damage expenses if you want it repaired.

    This is what I meant in my earlier post about ownership remains with the Seller until Title is legally passed to the Buyer. Further, the hard reality is, a Seller should be very wary of releasing a driveable car to the Buyer until the Buyer has produced proof of insurance for the purchased vehicle.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
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  25. Vics stuff
    Joined: May 24, 2014
    Posts: 358

    Vics stuff
    Member

    I always write that this vehicle is sold as with no warranties written or implied . That covers my ass . Like others , I have had people buy and days later call up complaining. As mentioned , I instruct the buyer read the receipt. They always clam up and go on their way.
    Vic
     
  26. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 4,160

    indyjps
    Member

    I always do a bill of sale, vehicle vin, date, both names, as is no warranty, paid in full, no leins, and price. Print 2 and we each have one. No one has complained.
     
  27. I always write "as is" on the bill of sale on any car I sell. If nothing else the sight of it it keeps the buyer from coming back on me. Never had a problem.
     
    LongT likes this.
  28. Ray, I agree completely. I was thinking more of a criminal charge for "run over a kid two blocks from your house", "death/bodily injury" where an arrest or summons is warranted. Phil
     
  29. LongT
    Joined: May 11, 2005
    Posts: 957

    LongT
    Member

    Thanks for all the replies. Now just to sell it!
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  30. We called it a TTC guarantee ...To The Curb
     

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