Technical disc brake swap issue..still got a soft pedal

Speaking of spacers; noticed that in the last batch of pictures that the steering arm spacer (that makes up for the thickness of the added caliper bracket) was not there, looked back at some earlier pictures you posted and they were missing there too.

Wonder if this could be putting something, other than the steering arm itself, in a bind; or if there is a difference thickness between spacers, the one spacer you are using on top is the wrong one. The bottom one should be the same thickness as the caliper bracket. I don't remember (from when we put the kits on) how thick the top spacer was.

 

^^^^
Looked at the directions for the CCP kit and it says the top spacer is the thicker ones of the spacers in the kit.

 

The spacer is there. Zoom in the picture.

At the spindle, the steering arm bolts in with 2 bolts
At the first bolts the caliper braket become a spacer.
At the 2nd bolts there is a spacer ( thinner ). And this spacer like the top is nearly perfect..it fit perfect

 

Do you have the directions that came with the kit?

 

Are the correct spindles on the car?

I have seen mismatched parts before. OEMs have transition periods that are frequently not on a model year.

Once a car leaves a dealership, all bets are off.

 

I am seeing mismatch here.

If the pictures from the internet are supposed to be the same kit, something is wrong.

The spindles are different. Just look at the flange where the backing plate attaches.

Also make a note of where the caliper bracket is, in relationship to the steering arm, between the OP's set up, and the internet pictures.

 

The pictures I supplied are not his kit , but similar. His kit came from eBay. No instructions that I have found except furnished with kit. And they do have a tech line available.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1959-1964-...ke-conversion-kit-drilled-rotors/350464389576

 

This reply is OBH my husband "Kerrynzl"

This photo you posted on #251 [21 Dec] shows something is wrong.
Look at the angle of the bolt, it should be perpendicular to the rotor.
Even the clearance of the pads looks wrong [hopefully it is just camera angle]

But this would cause pad knock-off which would definitely cause the brake pedal to go to the floor



Also on this photo. Take 2 rulers and hold them each side to see if the "stepped" mounting surfaces are parallel




Personally I think that those brackets belong in the Trash.
The brake torque loads get transferred into the brackets which are not in direct alignment the disc [rotating force].
This can create bending loads on the bracket and twisting forces on the caliper .[made worse because of clearances needed for floating calipers .]

A good floating caliper bracket should straddle each side of the disc, so that the torque is applied central to the disc.
see example here.

You can buy drop spindles for a 64 Chevy that are already made like this [$220]. But they require 3rd Gen Camaro 1LE Calipers and 12" Rotors [it will have good brakes]
[Summit Racing Part Number: CLP-5864DS-12]

This has been going since 3rd Dec 2018 and still not sorted.
Pony up some $$$ and sell your old kit to recover some money [you won't regret it]
Unfortunately you cant recover the time you lost trying to sort this.

 

Yeah, that.

 

Put it back together without brake pads and show us how far the caliper can move both inward and outward. Also a pic of the outer surface of the rotor. The inside looks burnished like it was doing some work. I suspect the outer pad isn’t doing much.

 

Quote from Mimilan:

This has been going since 3rd Dec 2018 and still not sorted.
Pony up some $$$ and sell your old kit to recover some money [you won't regret it]
Unfortunately you cant recover the time you lost trying to sort this.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Exactly......... put in good stuff and you'll be done (calipers, mounts, etc.)


The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Both side are burnished .
I had different set of a caliper on it
I really doubt the calipers are the issue
And everything , braket , rotor ,caliper , pin , everything is square...i even cheched angle braket , angle spindle , angle rotor

 

I really start consedering that...
I will have to get new coil too...since the actual one are cut...gonna too low with those spindle

 

Seems to me that despite a number of suggestions from various correspondents. myself included, you seem to be unwilling to establish the amount of slide of the caliper (pads removed), particularly inwards, which if is limited as suspected (as evidenced by the relationship of the caliper to the pins) will not give rise to appropriate pressure to the outer disc surface meaning that the poor braking effort is merely that of the inner pad pushing against the disc.

Armed with this information it might simply be a case of using pad spacers or thicker pads?

There's been a lot of discussion about the design of the brackets but whilst that's not ruled out one would wonder how / why that would be (but being designed or made wrongly is not an impossibility). More likely is that they were designed to work with x thickness discs and y thickness pads, something that could easily get lost in the procurement and / or parts picking process. I doubt the designer personally picked the parts out of the bins when your kit of parts was gathered.

The existence of manufactured pad spacers was an eye opener to me but is a clear indication that there are apparent needs for them, all of which points in the direction of a possible cause of your braking problem which as far as I can tell hasn't yet been eliminated in this process.

Like everyone here, just trying to be helpful.

Chris

 

????

 

It took us a year to get pics And then we got them fuckjob thumb nails.
Here’s a big blow up of mimilan/Kerry’s marked up Pic.

 

Could be that the bracket is bent, inboard. What could possibly cause that? Something like the piston pressure being applied substantially to the inside of the disc only? Just saying..........
Chris

 

Need to actually see it really ,,,,
But the caliper looks like it can’t physically move any more towards the center of the car. Inorder to begin just closing the gap let alone apply pressure the caliper , (thus bringing the outside pad with it) needs to move towards the center.
Is it out of square? It’s Lost in the shadow, and a fisheye lens shot on a skewed 3/4 view don’t help a whole lot.

I guess it’s too much to ask

 

You could fly me out to fix this if you want to.

 

This picture come from my post from the 20 december .
3 pictures

I placed a clamp on caliper to see how much the piston will go back.
Then yes it left some space or freeplay between pads and rotor
I swear, pads on..push the break pedal this space is not there anymore.
I also checked with a gage filler

 

Sorry
I will check the amount of slide of the caliper (pads remove) this weekend

 

I gave up, as this post of his shows this is another everything is perfect but it still doesn’t work...there has been more than enough discussion here to get to the cause, there hasn’t been a thorough well thought out train of diagnostics however, some of which is because it’s hard over the internet with many people trying to help, another reason I stepped away, there are perfectly capable people still trying to help, too many causes confusion.


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

@Vincentnova, it seems that you have invested months of effort in this problem. I long ago would have taken my car to my local mechanic to get an opinion and repair. This should be solvable.

Phil

 

Information like this would have been helpful earlier.
Here we are looking at an uneven pad clearance [trying to help you] ,but you are not exactly forthcoming with information.

I assume the freeplay/clearance disappeared after 1 pump of the pedal [If not , you still have pad knock-off]

One question that has never been asked or answered about the front wheel camber............

Did this camber change happen after you installed the shortened coils??? [lowering the front]

If you lower the car with drop spindles..........nothing changes except ride height.
But
If you lower the car with shorter coils........It induces [a lot] of negative camber because of the arc of a shorter upper A-Arm.

There might be nothing wrong with your front suspension.
We all assume that you never touched the alignment when you installed the brake kit [you didn't really need to]

 

Apology not required! Just please realise there's a bunch of frustrated keyboard helpers wanting you to be out on the road!!!

When checking the amount of slide, can you also reinstall the pads with the piston fully retracted and gauge how much wiggle room there is with the pads installed. It should be minimal. You shouldn't have to force the loaded caliper over the disc, but there shouldn't be lots of clearance either. If there is lots of clearance (lets say more than the thickness of a steel rule, so what's that, 50 thou?) this could possibly explain the problem. You could measure that clearance at this point also as that will be the dimension of the spacers that you might be needing. You might think that it's ok as the piston coming out will take up that clearance, and to an extent that is true, but the caliper has to be able to slide as well. I'm sorry that I'm sounding like a stuck record but with the line pressure you have and the non stuck piston this is the most likely issue imo, but bets are off it the bracket design is flawed. If the bracket is bent or not square you could still have pretty strong brakes but possibly with other issues, eg juddering.

And Gimpy needs your zip code to work out the travel arrangements for his kind visit if all else fails

Chris

 

Going back to post 278,,,,it’s obvious something is not square,,,,the caliper bracket is not letting the caliper and pads sit straight.
Look at the mounting bolt for the caliper,,,it’s at an angle to the face of the rotor.

Since these spindles are from an old car ,,,perhaps from a junk yard,,,,oops sorry,,,,salvage yard .
Isn’t it possible that the spindle might be bent,,,some cars go through some pretty good collisions on their way to the yard .
Also,,,they get banged up ,,and drug around a lot after they get there..

If the bracket is correct,,,,there is not much left .

Tommy

 

I checked it out .
Piston fully retracted .
I only have space at the outside pads. Not the inner one .
The space between pads and rotor is .097

Then i had someone press the pedal. Caliper slides back freely to where it was.
I also try the caliper without pads ,no rotors , i can slide the caliper by hand through the bolt if i want.

I now some old pictures caliper dont look square. It must be the lense of my phon

 

I'm not clear as to what exactly you're saying here. Was this caliper sliding test done with it all fully assembled on the car but with no pads? If so, where's the pics?
Chris

 

Jimminy Christmas
Isn’t there a Hamb member here in San Diego that can go help the guy out for a little bit.

Apparently there’s a problem or the thing would stop. The info we’ve been given indicates that it should stop. Obviously something in that info is false.

We’ve got :
A bled system
adequate line pressure
Pads that get burnished
Calipers that slide “thru the bolts”
A commercially available brake kit from eBay (manufactures and links and instructions currently undisclosed) that’s installed correctly and that assumingely works for other customers.
So it should work correctly here as well but we’ve got a car that won’t stop. The “problem” isn’t some form of mysticism or magic the problem is methods. Something in that list is bullshit because brake fluid isn’t smart enough to throw temper tantrums to try to ruin your day. Brake fluid doesn’t hold a grudge either so it’s not gonna purposely piss you off.
At this point There’s no way to dislodge the bullshit and get the car to stop over the internet.

 

And I am surprised there are still HAMB members such as yourself that have continued for 13 months to get to the bottom of this mystery, you have more patience than I have!