I would really like to build this, any help would be appreciated. I have a 62/63 283 and a 62-65 327 and want to build a 301 out of them. What rods do I need to use when I put the 283 crank in the 327? What pistons do I need to get or use? What else do I need?
I don't know the specs on one but a guy I went school with had one in his 57 and it was wicked fast! good luck on finding the info.
You can use either set of rods but the 327 rods are a little stronger. You'll have to get aftermarket pistons for your particular bore/stroke/rod length combination. Get the assembly balanced and go for it !
because you say `62-`63 283 , there is a good chance your 283 crank is forged and not cast...if not , i'd look for one. i assume you are building the the mythical 301 for a reason
Why not build a 327? I know 301/302 are kinda magic numbers, but that's because they were a good engine to meet the cubic inch specs to make a class. If you have two identically built engines, one a 302 and one a 327, the 327 should make more horsepower. And flat top 327 pistons should run on pump gas. Domed 11/1, which is the lowest off the shelf compression that I know of for the 302, will be pretty marginal. Just some stuff to think about. Larry T
no , that is not correct...not all 283's have forged cranks , i have two `66 283's sitting right here with cast cranks
This thread may have some info you may find useful http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302087
remember the key word here this no replacement for displacement never meet anybody wishes thier motor was a little smaller
We ran that engine (Z 28 302 ) in our stock car on asphault, it was a screamer on the 1/4 mile oval but didn't quite have the legs for the 1/2, basicly what you are talking about.
You say that nobody wants to make their engine smaller, how about all the guys that build the popular 383 sbc. Ain't nuttin butta 400 thats been robbed of some cubes ! Why ? Don't tell me it is because they already have a 350 block because I know that folks go out and buy a 350 block just to build a 383. I guess they just like spending a lot of money for adapter bearings. I would start with a 400 myself and buy a forged crank for it. Don't tell me that they won't cool because of siamese cyls because they cool just fine. Goldy
Actually, a good 400 block with sufficient room for an overbore is a tough thing to find. When you do find one, they typically carry a stiff price because they are in demand. On the other hand, four-bolt main 350s are easy and cheap. That is why people build 383s. Oh, and you dont use the spacer bearings in the 350 block with the 400 crank- you turn down the 400 crank mains to 350 size. If you go the other way (a 350 crank into a 400 block for 377 cubes) then you'd use the spacer bearings. I was going to build a 406 sbc, until a neighbor gave me a 4-bolt 350 block for free. Then it became a 383~! The 301 deal is cool in lightweight cars that can be geared to take advantage of the short stroke engine's ability to rev high. If you want to see the benefit of a 301, design it to spin to 8 grand. Invest heavily in valve train.
283 = 3.875" x 3.00" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod) 302 = 4.000" x 3.00" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod) 327 = 4.000" x 3.25" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod) All of these engines used the same rod length (5.7") Rod bearing crank journal diameter (2.000) Main bearing crank journal diameter (2.100) These are all considered the small journal cranks. G.M changed crank bearing journal sizes in 67 or 68 and were commonly referred to as large journal but were actually medium journal as there were some other that had larger journal such as the 400" SB and actuall considered large journals. Thr 283 crank will install in your 327 block without any modification to block or crank. As stated earlier use the 327 rods due to increased strength. Also replace all rod bolts with a good quality aftermarket bolt and have the mach. shop recon the rods andpolish the beems and shot peen. Use a 4.000, 4.030 or a 4.060 piston depending on condition of cylinder walls. The early 327 blocks will take a .060 overbore without any problems. As stated earlier purchase a set 302 4.xxx bore pistons for the correct pin location in the overbore of your choice. Also have the rotating assembly internally balanced by a reputable machine shop. If blueprinted and assembled properly using quality parts 8000 to 9000 RPM is not unusual with one of these short 3.000 stroke x 4.XXX engines. FYI: The 350 engine used the same 5.7 rod length with a 4.000 bore and a 3.480 stroke but the crank rod and main crank journals were larger. This combo tended to cause some stree on cyliner walls by always trying to push the piston thru the outside of the wall due to the increased stroke to 3.480 but the condition could be helped by using a 6.000 length rod. We also used some 6.250 length rods in some of the race application small blocks. Also the large journal 327 cranks will work in a 350 block, this would however decrease the stroke to 3.250. You can also put a 350 crank in a 327 block and you would just increase the stroke to 3.480. Remember the rods are all the same length 5.7" actually 5.703 just choose the piston with correct pin location for the application. Back in the late 60's were ran 301" smallblocks destroked 327 block in some junior fuel cars on the straight nitro can and ran 197, 198, 199 mph in a 760 pound wet without driver FED. We were running a 488 gear with a highgear setup. No tach in those days but I estimate she was turning 10,000 in the lights. She would start to spit alot of oil at about 150 mph. You had your hands full just trying to wipe the goggles off on every pass. We always said the firesuit need an oil chage every 3 runs. Also there were some other small blocks that utulized the 5.7 length rod. 267" and 305" come to mind. There may be some others but they escape my crusty ol' mind at this time.
If you build a 302, make sure you put good heads and valvetrain in em, you have to spin em hard to make great power.
at what point does the 350 end up at the 396 range.... ? 3 7/8" stroke...? also , around here , a lot of guys were running 389" 327's.... which should be in the range of a 60 over 327 with a 1/2" stroker crank.....just sounds meaner than a 383
thanks for the great info. Something for me to think about. If built I will be using H rods instead of stock with a roller cam and I always buy arp bolts. last tuesday my 283 broke # 8 rod (in the middle of the rod) under normal driving conditions. truck weighs about 2000lbs. and it has a 5 speed and has not been over 6000 rpms. the rod was not frozen to the crank and looks like it has normal wear on the bearing. right now I have rebuilt 283 with 305 heads. but having the heads machined for the roller cam. and screw in studs. (This will probally be the last SBC with stock rods) so hopes it last a year As for the 301 I want rpms for a light weight car. had to borrow a computer cause computer does not work
Re: "Main bearing crank journal diameter (2.100)" 1955-67: 2.30" 1968-*: 2.45", except 400: 2.65" Maximum RPM? I don't know where all this comes from. The 302 piston weighs more than the 327 piston - taller compression distance. This means the stress on the engine at the same piston speed is higher. The piston speed ~ new stroke ÷ old stroke, or 3.00 ÷ 3.25, or 92.3%. This means the average piston speed can be raised by.... 8.3%. If the engine turned 7,500 RPM as a 327 (not a great idea, by the way - it's over 4,000 f/m) it will have the same piston speed with a 302 at 8,125 RPM (you gain only 625 RPM). And, this is not a safe limit, which is the inertia load (you know - the thing that breaks rods?), which is proportionate to the square of the RPM. The math: the same inertial load on the 302 occurs at 7,874 RPM (you gain only 374 RPM), and even lower due to the heavier piston (but I can't do the math without the actual weights). 9,000 RPM? Sure, but it has nothing to do with the crankshaft.
thats where aluminum rods and a nice set of venolia pistons come in handy... also a 6" rod probably wouldn't hurt....
A longer rod slows down the maximum inertial load, but very little. Adding .30" of aluminum to the rod vs. removing .30" of skirt length - net gain? Loss? Jury is still out, I've heard it argued both ways. The best SBC rods are good enough for any street use (although the 1968-* 2.100" rods are better), but that RPM kills other stuff - like any stud-mounted rocker arm. 9,000 RPM means you can't re-use a single piece of valve gear - not the cam, lifters, pushrods, springs, collars. A proper Venolia (or JE, Arias, Ross, etc.: $6-700?) with max weight reduction, taper-wall pins, hollow dome etc. will stand 5,000 f/m, or about 10,000 RPM with 3.00" stroke, but there won't be any stock parts left in the motor if you expect it to live. Assuming nothing breaks (LOL) the limiting factor in RPM is not the: 1. cam 2. stroke 3. carburetor size 4. port diameter It's the valve spring tension. A stock 2 bbl. low compression 283 will turn 10,000 RPM (as it explodes) if it has 800 lb. springs. Generally speaking: biggest motor wins (that's why rules always limit engine size). For anything else, the smaller motor has to be considerably better at something, and that means $$$.
That's correct. All 1955-63 SBC crankshafts were forged, but many '64-'67 283s came with cast cranks. I've never seen a cast crank for a '62-'67 327.
Several ways to build a 301/302; NONE of them are cheap. Mix and match different rod lenths or pistons pin heights. You could even use the L-99 crank in a roller 350 block. Pistons are the most expensive part of the build usually, and aftermarket is the only source. You can use 327 or 350 pistons with the right rod lenth also. But, with todays gas, high compression is out. To the guy that wants to build one of these motors for the street, using a 327 block and 283 crank, and reuse the stock 283 or 327 rods, use a FORD 352 piston and enlarge the Chevy rod small end to the Ford pin size. BALANCE the rotating assembly! Use decent heads and valvetrain. Put it in a LIGHT car, geared low. But, if it were me, I would just build a 350 and make it LOOK like a 283, then lie, lie, lie. Butch/56sedandelivery.
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