DeSoto Cam And Roller Lifter UPDATE

thought not...

 

Hey 73RR, no problem.....!!

Im looking forward to geting my hands on HYD roller stick for my project.

Ground for a blower....of course !!

Its a good thread....thanx to 345 DeSoto & all who contributed.....

Rat

 

Has anyone physically tried installing the roller lifters in a block?

 

CRACKER HEAD - See Post #20 on this thread...

 

great news!!! keep this desoto stuff comin

 

must have missed that post. the reason i ask is because i have tried to put those same lifters in a desoto 291 an they didn't just "drop in".

 

what were the issues you had with the lifters?, were you trying stock 360 magnum hydraulic roller lifters?, other then a place to bolt the spider on, which i have this crazy idea of attaching stand offs to the bottom of the valley cover and mounting the spider on them. might need a cast or god forbid billit cover the take the strain.

 

Please tell us more about what you found.

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Yes, please Post where the problem(s) is/are. There's a bunch of conflicting info going around. The WORST that can happen, as I see it, is that the length of the connector bar would need to be modified. Other than that, what else? You ARE talking about the LA type rollers not the Magnum type rollers, aren't you?...

 

345 Desoto please just fly home and put this thing to rest!

 

OK, since cracker head hasn't gotten around to answering you...I'll do it for him.

The lifters he tried in the Desoto block were mine and the block was a 291 Desoto I have in my shop. I have a Chet Herbert solid roller for a 392 Chrysler that I bought from Donnie Johansen last year, and it has the same lifters that you are referring to in this post. I believe the part number is TEV.

The lifters do fit just fine in 331/354/392 Chryslers. So if you didn't already know, the small block Mopar lifters will work in that application. The lifter bodies share the same OD.

However, the lifters aren't even close to going into the low-deck Desoto block without some serious grinding of the lifter valley or some serious modification to the lifter itself. It needs about a 1/4" more height between the lifter bore and the deck to be able to physically install the lifter. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's a long way from a 'drop in.'

A later tall deck Desoto block may be a different story...I don't have one here to try the lifters in. If someone has one and could measure the distance from the top of the lifter bore to the bottom side of the deck I could give you an educated guess if they will fit or not.

 

BASS - Are you saying that the rollers won't phsically fit the lifter bores, or that the Stock push rods need to be shortened...as in the Dodge Hemi application for the lifters? This article might shed some light on all of this. http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=171&SID=60

 

Tony, the lifter body itself is about 1/4" too tall to actually fit in the block. If you could actually get it up under the deck and into the lifter bore, it would probably work fine, but due to the design of the lifter and tie bar...it can't/won't go in.

I don't know how you could possibly cut and reweld the tie-bar to shorten the lifter's overall height, so I will assume that the modification to the tie bar is a result of lifter bore spacing. That has nothing to do with why they won't fit. They simply are too tall to get under the deck and into the bore.

Again, on a 330/345 it may be a different story, but on a 276-291 the lifters are far from a drop-in.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer.

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After looking at the link, the Crane Cams lifters look like they might fit in the low deck Desoto, but I'd have to have an overall height measurement to compare with the Chet Herberts. The Cranes look to have a much shorter, more compact tie-bar assembly than the Chet Herbert small block Mopar lifters.

It's also probably worth noting that the Dodge on the link is a tall deck block. I have my doubts that even the Crane lifters would drop into a low deck Dodge.

 

Thanx for the info on the low deck Desoto Bass.....

The tall deck 330/341/345 will take that LA hyd roller ok as 345 Desoto has said.

The Crane lifter might fit due to its design, I scoped them out some time ago and they are different to the Comp Cams lifter once again.

Rat

 

thanks buddy. you can explain things better than me.

 

are LA hydraulic roller lifters the same as stock 360 magnum hydraulic roller lifters?

 

No...

 

....now we get to define 'drop-in'...Today I physically checked a P27 block. I installed Magnum lifters in all 16 holes, thru the deck! I also checked the fit of the Magnum connector link. The centre to centre spacing is, of course, too wide, and there is some interference between the link and the valley wall. The first look says that the wall interference issue is workable. I still think that the link could be modified for the spacing issue but haven't had time to try.
If these fit in the little Dodge it is reasonable to look at the DeSoto in the same manner since it is physically larger.

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i thought i would have my magnum 360 by now but i guess there busy and have not had time to pull it at the wreckers, i cant with to do some fiddleing myself.

 

budd, rather than using the 'auto dismantling facility' for small engine bits like lifters, have you checked with your local core supplier? Most of these 'wear' parts end up in the scrap bin.

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oooops...looks like I mis-read your post, you're after the package...

Is it possible to delete a post when we screw up?? or is that a management decision?

.

 

well for starters i dont know where the core engines go when they leave the auto wreckers, the engine i'm buying is a "core engine" the price is $300, the engine i can use in a 39 plymouth pickup anyway, i'll just use one of the lifters to check if they will work in my 276. i could dam near throw a rock and hit the wreckers from my shop so its not like its out of my way. thanks for your input on this subject there mr 73RR.
i guess i'll be useing two lifters to see if the spaceing is correct, and if the spider will work, we shall see.

 

In the attached photo, at the top edge of the block, the access holes to finish bore the lifter bores are visible. What I will do when I get back home (where my 291 block is) is to cut just enough out between each set of access holes to allow the link bar of the roller lifters to clear...then just drop them straight down into the lifter bores. The area that needs to be cut is not structurally critical...

 

FWIW roller lifters are not "wear parts" at a rebuilder. Unlike a flat tappet, they get reused in everything but top of the line rebuilds.

That's the foundation block of retro-rollers being so appealing. You can reuse a high mile lifter instead of dropping $400 on a new set.

 

Hey 345, I have the exact same aftermarket hyd roller lifters as you - and I dropped them into my 330 Desoto last nite.

They fit - well. Theres a little but of jockeying to get them into their bores but when they're in they fit good and the tie bar clears everything.

I'll get some pix up in the next few days for everyone to scope it out.

Now to get into Donny at Herbert Cams - funny thing is they dont do email correspon dence; can any Hemi friendly Hambers in So Cal act as a go between? I can provide a full tech sheet to Donny on my total combo so that he would have all the info he needs to grind me up a kustom hyd roller stick.

PM me if anyone can help guys !!

Pix to come.

Rat

 

I KNEW they were a "drop in"...heard it from too many people...some that actually did it. I'd like to see some good close ups of them, installed...

 

WOW! Just seeing this!!! Very awesome!! I will link it up if it hasn't been already...

 

DeSoto Roller Cam Update. Just got off the phone with Donny Johanson. The specs on my roller are: 234 degrees @ .050...valve lift .375...separation=112 degrees. I was worried that was a little anemic, but he said that for how I'm going to use it, it's fine. He said it's not a high-winder, but it will be a hell of a Stop Light to Stop Light cam with my 6-71. I'm having the nose cut off so I can use a HH chain case cover/chev short pump to save me some space (4 + inches) over the Stock setup. I need the space for a mechanical fan. It should be all machined, polished, and on it's way tomorrow...

 

What are your plans for the sprocket?? Remember that the 51-55 shaft is smaller than the 56 up...you can't just shove shim stock in there.


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