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Features De gustibus non est disputandum

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by Ryan, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. J'st Wandering
    Joined: Jan 28, 2004
    Posts: 1,656

    J'st Wandering

    Thank you Ryan for the attention to the problem. I don't have a solution but the repeating drama gets old. I would hope that those here would embrace the value of traditional hot rods and customs but the bitchers seem to hold values closer to restorers or street rodders. I appreciate your and the moderators efforts on keeping thing focused on traditional rods and customs.

    p.s. I admire the Aztec and a lot of the other customs of that era.

    p.p.s. I don't have a problem with the opinionated S.O.B.'s if they follow the traditional way. ;)
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  2. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 2,274

    Lloyd's paint & glass

    Nothing lets you know you're still alive like a little sand in your mangina :D Gets the heart rate up and warms the soul. Some think their way is the only way to believe, others possess the talent to have an open mind and see the positive side of things. Must be sad to live such a negative life. Try wearing loose underwear.
  3. Crocodile
    Joined: Jun 16, 2016
    Posts: 202


    I am not a custom guy at heart. But after meeting a friend in Florida while I was stationed there, I grew to like, and even love them. After that introduction to these cars, I still like mild customs best.
    One in twenty or thirty, to me, look good with quad canted headlights. Usually I like the original version better. I don't like angled pillars on most Mercs. There is a fellow on here building a straight pillar 51 Merc chop that is really killer to me.
    But, I completely respect the work and passion that goes into most of these builds.
    I am not a big Barris fan. I think Sam had more vision and talent, and George was just swinging for the fences by comparison. And, Winfield and countless others had more true style and ability.
    That said, I do fully get what a big influence he was on the automotive world. He was a big part of making custom mainstream.
    Bottom line, I won't badmouth anyone's custom car, even if it doesn't tickle my fancy. Where does that stop?
    I am also not a fan of SBC engines in a Ford. Should I express that every time I see one? I guess that is ok, as at least one guy has to say how great they are at least once in every flathead thread. I currently have ten flatheads, and gave away the one SBC I had, so that should express how I sit on that subject...
    All I am rambling about, is to try to see the talent and good in the cars here, and shut your big mouth when it isn't your thing.
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,175


    From my (departed) Father: Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  5. Shutter Speed
    Joined: Feb 2, 2017
    Posts: 818

    Shutter Speed

    Pop always said..”B positive, it’s in your blood”.

    Also, “If you need help, l’ll give it to you. If you don’t, I won’t”
    charleyw and Stogy like this.
  6. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,476

    seb fontana
    from ct

    may faulty logic undermine your entire philosophy

    faulty logic may undermine your entire philosophy

    faulty logic will undermine your entire philosophy
    winduptoy, Stogy and loudbang like this.
  7. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 2,224


    Thanks Ryan, well said.
    I didn’t see the thread you addressed but overall the H.A.M.B. members seem very civil compared to some other sites with commenters. It’s one of the many reasons why I stay on and support the site.
    Myself, I’m mostly a hot rod guy although I have owned a couple mild customs. When you consider the design, welding, fabrication, and finishing effort involved to get these customs show ready, they truly are a mixed media work of art. As with any art object there will always be fans and detractors, I guess all we can do is hope that detractors will make their comments with courtesy and civility.
    If not, feel free to spank ‘em.

    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
    Stogy likes this.
  8. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,427


    Great! .. and I thought I could never use my Latin again when I left school. Lucky me, hahahahaha
    The Aztec rocks, it´s a piece of art in the truest sense and a custom milestone. But if you ask me, I´d rather drive a car.
    Stogy likes this.
  9. hotrodmano
    Joined: May 3, 2011
    Posts: 367

    from Norway

    I like to see it this way: The Aztec is not comparable with for instance The Matranga Merc on one end, neither is it comparable with The Golden Sahara in the other end. It doesnt mean its ugly or weird, juts a "product" of its time. What I see is a balanced, well buildt custom with good stance and a lot of body mods. Good or bad, its a milestone and reflects a style that was typical for the time. Extravagant, flashy. I mean, come on. What should one do to stand out...with all those fins and chrome at the time. You gotta take it all out. and that what Barris did. I love it and the time it represents.
    40two, VANDENPLAS, Nostrebor and 4 others like this.
  10. Hmm...Ryan's post got me to thinking. Although I've never been a fan of late 50's customs, I always appreciated the skill it took to create them. It's just that the "art" was not to my liking. Ryan's post reminded me to pause and view this era of customs in their historical context. If I do that, they make more sense, and THAT allows me to begin to appreciate them more. As an artist and someone who loves history, I shouldn't have lost sight of this. Frankly, I don't "like" not liking something. It hints at a lack of understanding, which is probably exactly what it has been for me in this case. Okay, I'm going to "try on" this different perspective and see how it fits.
  11. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 1,052


    I don't have a picture but in the late 50s there was a guy in Oklahoma City who built a custom with an airplane themed interior. I could appreciate the skill it took but I didn't like it and it didn't bother me that I disliked it. I don't like Picasso or Jason Pollack either. I think they tried to cover up their lack of skills by doing things that were bizarre. While Aztec is unique and there is certainly a lot of technical skill involved in it's creation that I appreciate, I don't like it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  12. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 19,069

    from Austin, TX
    Staff Member

    Got this via pm from a member on this post:

    And figured I would address this publicly and then move on. My new machine should be here today and the next 56 hours or so, I'm gonna be going crazy getting my office put back together. Anyway...

    I've been doing this for 26 years. Hell, I was literally a kid when I started this shit. And in that time, I've learned a lot about myself and other folks. One of the very valuable lessons I've learned is this:

    Two types of people argue on the internet - Kids that haven't developed a sense of self yet and adults with insecurities in their life that they use the internet to relieve.

    And so, when I see some guy doing the whole "I tell it like it is" act and being an asshole, I don't see an asshole. I see some guy that maybe has a bad job and takes shit all day and then uses the internet in an attempt to get back some of that power or self worth.

    This doesn't mean I just let it go... It just means that I don't get defensive and amplify the argument. Whatever the guy is arguing about isn't about me. It's not my problem. It's his.

    (And don't forget - we all have our own problems. I mean, I'm so fucked up it's a wonder I haven't gone bat shit crazy yet...)

    It might sound crazy, but force yourself to think this way for a while - not only here, but in life in general. It's crazy how much it has helped me and the way I approach and see things.


    Anyway, I'm fine with this:
    And I'm not fine with this:

    Anyway, this has gone way over the line of where I was hoping it would probably because I let my ego inform me that I was a good enough writer to make sense of it all. I'm not.

    So, I'm out to go get a bunch of computer shit set up. Gave it a hell of an effort though!
  13. Custom guy here. If I had the means, I'd buy it. It's a marvelous example of a period custom.

    There are a few who seem to lie and wait for a custom thread to pounce on with their dislike of customs in general. I get that everyone has opinions, however you don't always HAVE to state it. A lesson I taught my kids very early on walking through car shows is to not just say you don't like a car. It's okay for it to not be your thing but you don't have to announce it to the world. Another thing I used to do to get them past that mentality was challenge them when they did say a car was ugly. I would make them point out at least 2 things on the car that are cool. They always could.....

    Now that I've said that. @Ryan you know I can't help myself.
    "I do, however, feel it is the H.A.M.B.’s place to educate those that are interested and willing to learn."

    "If you step back 50-feet and look at it all from a broader perspective, it’s all pretty damned rediculous really."

    It's "ridiculous". ;)
    40two, Stogy, VANDENPLAS and 5 others like this.
  14. Like the school teacher in The Wall!
    charleyw likes this.
  15. J'st Wandering
    Joined: Jan 28, 2004
    Posts: 1,656

    J'st Wandering

    Just because you write it does not mean they will read it. I think only half those on the internet choose to read. They look at pictures, skim over the print and then share their intelligence.
  16. Chappy444
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,088

    1. Maryland HAMBers

    I never understood why people give others such control over their lives/emotions...
    People (on the internet especially) can only provide a stimulus.
    How much you react, and how long you let it affect your attitude and happiness is all on you.
    Stop letting other people control your life, no matter how small of a part they are controlling.

    I had a lot more written but I erased it...I realized this is just my opinion, and no one should really care....LOL

  17. I have never been a customs guy unless it has some hot rod in it. I do however appreciate the workmanship. As far a talking another language, I have enough trouble with English. I live in Connecticut and I would not travel to N.Y. to see anything.:rolleyes: The Aztec just does not do it for me. Nice article Ryan! Reminded me of my early Catholic school nightmares.
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  18. hotrodjack33
    Joined: Aug 19, 2019
    Posts: 1,000


    I'm a newby here, and frankly am a little shocked at some of the "negative" posters on this forum. It appears that some folks think to be a "Real Hot Rodder" you have to act like a hard core, bad ass, hoodlum punk. Not attractive traits in teenagers...even less attractive in adults.
    Funny thing is, I've been Hot Rodding for almost 50 years (100s of shows, runs, cruises ) and have never met a Hot Rod Hoodlum in real life (and only a couple real assholes). Hot rodders are GREAT people.
    I guess I'm just curious why good folks feel this need to act like negative douche bag punks on this forum.
  19. Never forget, that you can always put people on the "Ignore-list". I have done this on several occasions and it made my HAMB experience really much better.
    Thor1 and Sancho like this.
  20. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 5,594

    A Boner

    I've always liked the Aztec, and considered it one of very few cars that George built, that I actually liked. Now, I'm reading George and Sam built it. I always assumed it was a George custom, as it didn't look like a typical Sam custom. To me Sam was the man! That's probably why, as wild as it is, that I like it.
    VANDENPLAS and stillrunners like this.
  21. I get what you're saying and perhaps I should have expressed myself better. I don't feel the need to "like" everything but I at least want to try to understand it and appreciate it first if I can. To give myself a chance to understand it and the reasons I may not like it. I guess I mis-spoke when I said I don't like not liking something. What I really meant was I don't like not "appreciating" something without first turning it over and around to determine if it merits appreciation. To stop and look at something from a historical context will help me to do that. Like looking at a painting from different points in a room. If I come at it from this perspective I can appreciate cars like The Aztec (and others) much more and it helps me to see them in a different light...but like you, I still may not like it. It's just not my "thing", but in my opinion, it is definitely art and I see how it fits into the period and what was going on.

    When I was a kid I didn't like green beans or Brussels sprouts. I still don't love them, but I appreciate them. Still hate buttermilk though.

    On the other hand, not everything is "art" even though the "artist" would like to think it is. Like Yoko Onos singing, for example. She may think it's art, but to me it's just shit. By the way, I do not put the Aztec in this category at all!
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
    Desoto291Hemi and Thor1 like this.
  22. proartguy
    Joined: Apr 13, 2009
    Posts: 441

    from Sparks, NV

    Not everything deserves comment.

    Years ago I got tired of “sidewalk show car judges”. Everyone has an opinion and their own preferences. Many seem compelled to spew their comments as if someone cares. As was posted earlier, I too taught my son to not blurt out his critique when we were at car events.

    Art is very subjective. A person’s preference for one style or another does not mean it is not art. If the owner of the Aztec had that vision it doesn’t matter if anyone else liked it.

    In show judging points are awarded for modifications, especially in the era when the Aztec was built. Thus, customs built to win trophies started to become more outrageous. As in any object the design tends to reflect the era. Certainly the Aztec does that.

    At this time, when I wonder about the future of all car oriented pastimes, it would seem the sidewalk show car judging is only divisive and unproductive.
    lurker mick and Thor1 like this.
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,043


    Well I get it, really I do. Even in what I like to call "the dark days of customs (kustoms)", I still 'get it' and not many that know me would say different. As described, once again with ample eloquence, our fearless leader nailed it with the reference to art and these cars as works of art. It's nobody's fault that this guy "Art" didn't always hit a home run. Perhaps his taste was only in his mouth. Perhaps he chased that ghost that drove is ego into pure madness. Perhaps he was over medicated one day and the only cure was to rid the imagination of what lurked so deep within. Anyone who's a student of custom's glory days knows not every Art's last name was Di Vinci, Michelangelo, Barris, Roth or Bailon.

    The part that has me just short of proud that I 'get it' is the ability to hold that thought when I see it. Would I have built or commissioned the Aztec? Nope. I'm a lot more restrained in my pursuits. That doesn't make me any better or worse or more qualified to comment., but if I comment I usually try to exercise a little decorum. Some guys (even some named Art) are assholes and they get both barrels but it's rare, and more rare that it's ever worth said barrels at that. It's pretty fuckin kool that at the end of it all a bunch of like-minded humps like us can jabber about it to heart's content. That my friends? That's art.

    Cosquillas en el culo con una pluma? is better than ¿Te metiste una pluma en el culo? right?
    Stogy, Saxman, Barn Hunter and 3 others like this.
  24. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 5,844

    anthony myrick

    Seems that cars got crazy in the show world and produced some odd over the top creations
    The AMBR and Ridler awards are a great example of this. There are some past winners that are not very attractive but represent the custom world in their own time period.
    Current big trophy cars have become more conservative lately. I would think most here would like that however what builder is pushing things like these "ugly duckling" builders did?. The AMBR is restrained by a time period, the Ridler is not. Imagine purchasing a brand new car and completely restyling it. Those guys got to create in a unique time period. This is why cars like the Aztec are cool.
    VANDENPLAS and Barn Hunter like this.
  25. Did everyone notice Ryan’s comments above,,and his reasoning.

    As long as you keep it to an opinion he is fine with it,,,,explain your reasoning.
    As soon as you make it personal,,,he is not .
    Read his examples over again,,,don’t you see ?

    As to the one about people laughing on Facebook,,,,I seriously doubt that Ryan gives a,,”you know what “,,about that !
    I know I don’t,,,what does Facebook have to do with Hot Rods,,or Customs .

    And besides,,,it’s like I have said before,,,,he owns this,,,,he can do as he Damn well pleases !
    I am just glad it is here !

    bchctybob and Chicster like this.
  26. williebill
    Joined: Mar 1, 2004
    Posts: 2,566


    Please, God, don't let this Latin shit spill over onto any other threads...
    bchctybob and Desoto291Hemi like this.
  27. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 951


    Just like racing, you have to build to the edge of the rules to be competitive.
  28. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,469

    from Zoar, Ohio

    “expand fines tuos”
  29. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 5,844

    anthony myrick

    Latina fuit creata ante MCMLXIV
  30. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,469

    from Zoar, Ohio

    Expand your horizons.

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