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DAG213 how to apply?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by stan65, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. stan65
    Joined: Nov 28, 2010
    Posts: 58

    stan65
    Member
    from Toledo, IL

    I'm working on a tripower setup on my 348. I have 9.5:1 compression and a thumpr cam. I have the Vintage Speed "kit" which includes new end carb bases, but they do not seal 100%. I am not sure how they could seal 100% and still move? 99% or 98% what is realistic. I am trying to figure out if I need to modify the bases at this point. The issue I am having is the idle mixture screws were unresponsive so I drilled the idle tubes to .038". the screws seem somewhat responsive now, and my vacuum came up from 5 to 10".

    I am just wondering if my end bases are sealed "as good as it gets" or do I need to apply DAG213. If so does anybody know exactly how to apply it. How much, where, how long to dry, heat cure etc?

    I searched for a couple of days now, and can't find answers to my particular question's.

    Thanks in advance,
    Stan
     
  2. Do you still have idle screws in your secondary bases? As far as I know, the idle circuits should be blocked on the secondaries. That's how I did it on my setup anyway.

    If the carb bases you got from vintage speed have idle circuits, that doesn't seem right. I'm no expert, but if everything is right, secondary bases should have thicker butterflies and should seal good without the DAG stuff, I think. Like I said though, I'm no expert.

    Do a search. There is lot's of info on here about this.
     
  3. stan65
    Joined: Nov 28, 2010
    Posts: 58

    stan65
    Member
    from Toledo, IL

    The bases from vintage speed indeed do not have idle screws nor power valves, and do have the thicker butterflies. It is impossible to seal them 100% and still have them be able to open. There will always be side clearance. I'm just really curious how much leakage is normal / acceptable. I would also like to know the application process for the DAG213.

    As far as the search, I have not found any information other than 100% sealed and use DAG213.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  4. stan65
    Joined: Nov 28, 2010
    Posts: 58

    stan65
    Member
    from Toledo, IL

    BTT,

    Does anybody have any info on how to apply the DAG213? Do you apply it to the bores or the butterfly's? Do you heat cure it after you apply it?


    Thanks,
    Stan
     
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  5. stan65
    Joined: Nov 28, 2010
    Posts: 58

    stan65
    Member
    from Toledo, IL

    Yea I found this link already:

    http://www.laddresearch.com/SpecSheets/LaddDAG213.pdf

    it states "Curing The applied film should be air dried for about 10 minutes before baking to avoid trapping any solvents. The recommended cure
    cycle is 350°F (177°C) for 60 minutes or 425°F(220°C) for 20 minutes."


    Surely somebody has done this before, there are many posts saying to use it, but no clear cut instructions of how. I know I'm probably being anal, but I keep seeing they should seal 100%, but cannot understand how this could be accomplished at the sides of the butterflies to the bores.

    Anyway, if I don't hear anything on this, I will apply the DAG to the edges of the butterflies, wait 10 minutes then cook them!

    Thanks,
    Stan
     
  6. gasserjohn
    Joined: Nov 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,219

    gasserjohn
    Member

    dag 213 came with rebuild kits from the dealer /i was a mechanic when this was new... the dag213 to the closed butterfly area when dry broke the seal by opening the carb...this is what i was told by the chevy parts department.........
     
  7. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,805

    carbking
    Member

    It was originally applied to the throttle plates.

    During the same period of time, asbestos had many uses in the automotive industry; it no longer does.

    Have rebuilt hundreds of ORIGINAL tripower end carbs, and have never needed the DAG213. I would have refused any job at any price from an owner that demanded its use.

    Jon.
     
  8. powdercoater46
    Joined: Oct 27, 2009
    Posts: 246

    powdercoater46
    Member

    Did you have good luck with this method?
     
  9. stan65
    Joined: Nov 28, 2010
    Posts: 58

    stan65
    Member
    from Toledo, IL

    Well, it's a long story, but here it goes.

    Step 1)
    Idle at 900rpm in park - 6" of Vacuum.
    put it in gear it dies. Idle mixture screw made no change.

    Step 2)
    I added DAG 213 and saw maybe .5" vacuum change for the better.

    Step 3)
    I made block off plates and gained another .5"

    Step 4)
    Removed plates as I figured the end carbs were not the issue.

    Step 5)
    with the engine warm, I covered half the center carb with my hand and the Idle came up. I then checked for vacuum leaks and found none. Just a reminder I am running a thumpr cam. I called comp cams and discussed the Idle vacuum and they said I should see around 10" at 900rpm with my combination.

    Step 6)
    I next figured I needed to drill my butterflies to get them closed enough to be in the correct relationship with the idle transfer slots. Then I reset the idle to 900rpm, once again no change with the idle mixture screws.Also no real change in idle vacuum But it is a step that needs done before messing with the Idle tubes.

    Step 7)
    I drilled out the idle dip tubes from .032" to .040" which richened the Idle mixture. My idle screws became responsive. I recommend stepping up in .002" increments till your screws become responsive. Once all adjustments are reset, idle to 900, idle mixture screws set to highest vacuum, I was getting between 10-11" of vacuum.

    Step 8)
    Next I went after the power valve. I used my s-10 as a vacuum source to set the power valve opening value. I set it to start moving at 7-8" of vacuum.

    Step 9)
    It still wouldn't idle in gear. The specs for the thumpr cam states "can be used with stock stall - 2000 recommended". BOLONEY! If you want your car to idle at 2000 in park then bang into gear and chug idle at 500rpm you can.This was even with a B&M Torkmaster 2400rpm converter. I then chose a Hughes 10" 3000 stall lockup converter for my 700r4 and it now idles at 900rpm in park and 775rpm in gear.

    I haven't driven the car yet, but the idle and throttle response are crisp.

    Thanks,
    Stan
     
  10. powdercoater46
    Joined: Oct 27, 2009
    Posts: 246

    powdercoater46
    Member

    Oh boy.. I have work to do! Thanks
     
  11. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,805

    carbking
    Member

    Stan - thank you for posting your experience. Hopefully, others that think DAG-213 is a magic potion will learn from your taking the time to explain your ordeal. Even when the cars were new, DAG-213 was simply a band-aide. And, like asbestos, Dag-213 disappeared from carburetors long before EFI replaced the carburetor. The throttle bodies can be made to seal satisfactorily without it. But your ordeal really points out that the carburetor must be calibrated to the desires of the engine.

    Let us know how it drives!

    Jon.
     

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