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Technical Customer 64 Bel Air runs like poop....

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gtkane, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. gtkane
    Joined: Jan 25, 2009
    Posts: 327

    gtkane
    Member

    It's been a while.....
    Anyways...I started a new job, and am taking over the last guys work.
    It's a 64 belair with a rebuilt 283...mostly stock with trick flow heads, mild cam(about .420 lift kind of thing) and a new Holley 6210 spread bore carb, and a petronics ignition.
    I just cant get it to run right....has black smoke, and falls flat and pops.
    The carb doesn't seem to be flooding, and the mixture screws are about 1 turn out.
    With the initial timing set at 8 deg, and the choke properly set, it starts great cold and idles decent, but no power....
    Any thoughts would be appreciated!
    Thanks in advance.....

    Sent from my SM-G960W using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  2. most carb problems turn out to be ignition, How long since the rebuild? If they installed one of those cheep so called roller timing chains its a good chance its now loose. grab the harmonic balancer and move it back and forth to feel the slack in the timing chain. late cam timing makes a engine luggish. do the basics run a compression test. There aint a piece of cast iron in the world that can fool you unless you let it.
     
  3. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,583

    6sally6
    Member

    Get it warm and then turn in about 12* advance on the timing..........screw both adjustment screws in and back out 2 full turns. See if THAT makes it any better. You are using a good timing light, right?!
    6sally6
     
  4. What old wolf said.

    Check ignition timing?
    Pertronix is good ?
    Installed properly?
    If unsure try your points again?
    Vacuum gauge reading?
    Valve adjustment?
    Electric or mechanical fuel pump?
    Fuel pressure at carb?
    Plugged/ dirty fuel lines/tank?
    Compression test?
    Leak down test?
    Good grounds?
    Good battery?
    Vacuum leaks?
    Base timing?
    Carb confirmed good and all adjustments correct?
    Are you shoes tied correctly?
    Did you read this whole list?

    Pretty much a guarantee if you check all this stuff the car will be running like a top in no time.
    And other then the compression test and leak down test this can all be accomplished in under 2 hours..... that is if you tied your shoes right.
     
    Baumi and Old wolf like this.

  5. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,359

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Check the timing @ about 3000 rpm, maybe the advance weights are sticking,:eek: should be about 22 degree movement when full advanced .
     
  6. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,749

    sdluck
    Member

    As said by others,do a comp test first
     
    tb33anda3rd likes this.
  7. The only poop that I have seen run, messes up my underwear. I agree with the theory that perhaps the advance isn't working.
     
  8. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 12,686

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    I would check to see if the coil is the right one for the petronix I’ve seen that foul things up more than a few times.
     
    belair likes this.
  9. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,835

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    How is that 6210 fitted to the intake?
    That would not be my carburetor of choice.
     
  10. Depending on how the cam was broken in and how much time it has spent idling, starting/stopping without being driven, the oil used etc...you might also want to check for a flattened camshaft lobe.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  11. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,277

    upspirate
    Member

    Is it a new build?
    Did it ever run right?
    If new, is the cam out of sync?
    Is the distributor installed properly?
     
  12. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,014

    missysdad1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Holleys often have problems with power valves and accelerator pumps which cause them to behave erratically.

    Also, if you've looked in all the normal places for vacuum leaks don't forget the diaphragm in the vacuum advance unit and the power brake booster. I've had vacuum leaks in both places and they will drive you crazy!

    Good luck!
     
  13. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,749

    sdluck
    Member

    What intake is the spread bore mounted to?
     
  14. primed34
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 1,180

    primed34
    Member

    If it's back fired, you probably have a bad power valve. You might try swapping the carb.
     
    Frankie47 likes this.
  15. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,749

    sdluck
    Member

    Most holley have a backfire protection ,I rarely seen one blown out.When the do the go rich.
     
  16. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,311

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had a somewhat similar problem, the engine wouldn't RPM, started back firing at 3000 RPM (if I remember correctly), I changed carbs, intake's distributors trying to figure out why it wouldn't run properly. What I should have done (and I would have saved lot's of money had I done so) was to check the cam timing. I had installed a Cloyes timing gear set so I could advance and retard the cam, but....I must have been taking stupid pills because I didn't align it properly. On a 38 Chevy you have to pull the front clip to really get at the front of the engine which was part of the reason I hadn't done it. After dropping the pan and pulling off the front cover I immediately saw what I had done wrong. The cam was out about 20 degrees, I reassembled it and it ran fine, it really RPM's now:) The only upside is I have parts leftover to use on the 53 Studebaker. This may not be your problem, I just shared my experience of infamy so the reader can get a laugh and say "I've never done that":)
     
  17. oldstyle1776
    Joined: Jul 30, 2018
    Posts: 9

    oldstyle1776
    Member

    Old wires and pertronix don't always work together.
    Just another thought.
     
  18. bschwoeble
    Joined: Oct 20, 2008
    Posts: 630

    bschwoeble
    Member

    All replies are excellent advice. If the car sat for a long time, don't forget to consider a blocked exhaust (mouse nest) , or even a heat riser that won't open if it has stock manifolds. Just a thought.
     
  19. fastcar1953
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 2,551

    fastcar1953
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    get it fixed yet? update please
     
  20. gtkane
    Joined: Jan 25, 2009
    Posts: 327

    gtkane
    Member

    I am back on this one today...
    You guys have given me a lot of good ideas, and I appreciate that!
    The engine is a fresh build with about 30 miles on the clock, with every imaginable part being new...sometimes it gets a little overwhelming!
    I will report back later this morning!

    Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    belair likes this.
  21. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,190

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    First thing I would do is put a set of Accel points and condenser in it, set the dwell and then set the timing. Check the mechanical timing advance by scribing a line on the damper 3/4" away towards advance from the original and use a regular timing light. Make sure the coil has a resister.
     
  22. gtkane
    Joined: Jan 25, 2009
    Posts: 327

    gtkane
    Member

    Ok...here's what I got....
    Has new msd wires
    10 deg initial timing, 31 deg advance at 2700 rpm
    Checked the rocker adjustment...all set correctly.
    Plugs are new, but have a lot of soot.
    Will pop from the exhaust at times.
    When running decent, only has 12 in of vacuum
    Tried known good edelbrock carb with no change.

    I checked the voltage from the coil wire with a snap on kv probe and it shows 7000 volts, but on the plug wires shows 2000 volts.
    All plug wires have about 2000 ohms resistance, and are in the right order.....

    Sent from my SM-G960W using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  23. gtkane
    Joined: Jan 25, 2009
    Posts: 327

    gtkane
    Member

    Ok...things changed!....forgot to plug off one vac port....
    Set the mixture screws....runs amazing and has 19 in of vacuum!
    It's like a whole different animal now
    Will be returning that carb under warranty.
    Thanks for all your help guys!

    Sent from my SM-G960W using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    saltflats likes this.
  24. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,563

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Since everything else seems to be pretty close to right snooping online brings up this bit=
    A vacuum reading at idle that is much lower than normal might indicate leakage through the intake manifold gaskets, manifold to carburetor gaskets, vacuum brake booster or the vacuum modulator. Low readings could also be caused by very late valve timing or worn piston rings.

    Two of them are easy to eliminate if the car has either on it by simply putting a cap on the proper vacuum port. I'd think you would have caught and or possibly correted The carb gasket idea and we should be able to rule out bad rigs. Leaving what other's mentioned in the cam timing possibly being off.
     

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