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History Custom Car builder Spotlight: AYALA BROTHERS

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by Rikster, Mar 24, 2005.

  1. Jeff I talked to Dave (banditomerc) about the blue color he was painting his tribute car as I want to paint my truck a dark blue. He told me that Memo Ortega told him that the blue on Gils car was based on an old Ford color Audalusite Blue only darker. He also said it was not a metallic. He said they added about 4 oz of black to a gallon of the Audalusite to get the right shade.
     
  2. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Jeff, unless you're talking a candy job, most of today's painters are loading two to four coats of clear over their base colours to create depth in the paint finish. When Ayala, and the others were painting their builds in the ''Golden Age of Kustoms" pre 1960, they did so with many thinned coats of lacquer. Once cut, buffed and waxed, light would travel through these many coats, hit the ground coat, and return to view with a ''glow'' or luminescence. Epoxy or urethane won't produce that effect unless it's a well sprayed candy, toss in flake, pearl or mica and the glow is lost:(
    We've been lookin at two-stage clear coat finishes for fourty years now, and most jus' assume, ALL paint jobs always looked like bar top resin -taint so:D

    K13, Mercedes Benz had a colour in the 80's they used on their big sedans that was very close to " Audalusite Blue " I don't know if the colour was only used on '' grey market '' vehicles or was sold here in the states? It was a very pretty bleu!


    " Do not reach greedily for the Kool- Aid "
     
  3. P.P. when talking paint for myself I do not want a candy job. I would love a real authentic style laquer job though.The cars I was talking about weren't candys,I was talkin dark colors like black and blues and greens.I mean they look good but just so shiney but not real depth to them.

    How do you feel about Glasurits ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  4. Royalshifter
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 15,706

    Royalshifter
    Moderator
    from California

    I just love this....I just picked up a 47 Ford Club coupe?:)

     
  5. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,080

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    Jeff, you hit the nail on the head when you said Welch was a "heavy hitter"; Custom car, babes, drags. Shit, a young guy couldn't ask for much more!
    I'm curious to know what Wally Welch and Louis Bettancourt did for a living? Both had their Mercs chopped, customized and painted by Ayala, then by '52ish had Barris repaints,etc (and in Welch's case also rework the interior).
    Essentially, near new cars gone through TWICE by two top LA custom shops within a few years. The average guy fortunate enough to buy a new Merc would have done well enough to still be making the monthly payments let alone have the car completely customized twice.
    What a terrific thread. The Ayalas were rulers in my book!
     
  6. ^^^ Yes I agree they ruled and still do to me.Im not sure what they did for work.I know Wallys family owned drugstores.I always thought his family owned the Welchs' restaurant also but Rik said their wasn't a connection.Wally had it going on bigtime,look at his 41 he had before the Merc.My favorite 41 convert.Dragstrips....girls.....the guy just had class.

    I dont know what Louie did during these years but I know I loved his car.
     
  7. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey Jeff,

    If a '' real & authentic '' paint finish is what you really want, why not go with lacquer? I'm sure were Ayala still painting kustoms today, he'd probably be shooting overcleared urethanes too! Sixty plus years ago, a lacquer finish was standard of the industry, not '' traditional '' today we've got the telescope turned around:D
    A lacquer finish will demand more maintenance than a plastic urethane, just as a flathead requires more than a modern computer managed engine, but neither is the same animal;) To me, a traditional kustom shot in a urethane looks like a cocktail waitress in a prom dress-who you tryin' to fool?:eek:
    Glasurit makes some good paint products, just be sure to pick a true black or bleu, not one of the muddy ones!


    " The ice cream truck in his neighborhood plays Helter-Skelter "
     
  8. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 9,632

    50Fraud
    Member

    I'm not offended by modern finishes, just as I don't get worked up by radial tires on a car that is generally period in appearance. I have said before that this hobby never was about Civil War re-enactments, despite what some of our peers believe.

    That said, I love your cocktail waitress analogy. But then, I would take the cocktail waitress to the prom.
     
  9. ^^ Thats funny .I don't mind modern finishes either.When I was talking about the overcleared paintjobs I only meant a very small handful of modern builds.I don't know paint good enough to really know the difference at a quick glance.I have just noticed some cars have that super glossy look without any depth.
    I think it is safe to say that Gil's paintjobs looked a 2feet deep.That picture of the 46 at the indoor show is just incredible.

    I do get a little worked up about radial tires though :) It really depends on the car though.
     
  10. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey Tony,

    I'm guessin', it all gets down to what ya call '' Traditional '' or '' K/Custom "? " Custom Rodder Magazine " went belly up, again ,for some very good reasons: the builds' featured all started to look as if they were in the throws of an identity crisis- what is it, a kustom, a street rod, resto rod ,tech rod a bath tub acid trip/rod?:eek: The guys like the Ayala's, Summers and to some extent the Brothers Barris didn't have to sholder the ignominy of cheesy plastic finishes shot/ sold as ''traditional'' or ''blue chrome'' (chrome knocked up with brightners to side step a real tri-plate process, and save on material costs, but sold as ''Show Chrome":rolleyes: ) simply because the technology of the day hadn't sunk that low:D I'm pretty sure my retch with the above materials/methods is a hang over from my days in the restoration business, where none of it would fly.


    " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "
     
  11. koolkemp
    Joined: May 7, 2004
    Posts: 6,007

    koolkemp
    Member

    You will hear it in Quebec lol! :p
     
  12. According to the Ayala article in Rodders Journal Louis worked for the police department and later became a detective so I assume he was a regular officer when he built his car.


    Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
     
  13. Very intersting that the 46/42 car has had different license plates in different pictures.I mean maybe the numbers changed when the plates went from yellow to black but numbers shouldnt change when one tag says 49 and one says 50.Also there are quite a difference in stances in some of these pictures.(which could have varried) It is a big difference in height in some of these pictures.Also.. in the time life magazine photo of Gils car at the indoor carshow campared to the sideview of the recent Emory photo...in the Emory photo the windows look a little more rounded to my picky eye.I understand that lighting can change things like this.
     
  14. Also how Memo mentions that when he was doing bodywork on Gils old car he removed the metal that was covering the vent and found no trace of the bronze color at all.In the photo of the car in bronze you can clearly see the vent was painted.That is also the same car that Gils wife identified as Bob Gillums 47 Ford.There are also different locations of the antenna in different photos as well.Im not trying to prove anything like I did with Quesnel but I think it is just interesting Ayala history and discussion.

    I know this has been mentioned before but I just wanted to write some observations.
    Wow....can you imagine if there was 2 of these cars crushing the streets.What a sight that would be.
     
  15. 53chevy
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 1,570

    53chevy
    Member

    Hahaha, that was the one thing that made me question the various photos of Gil's '42 Ford Custom was the that long antenna, clearly shown in most photos, both clear and not so clear. And the car having three different license plates throughout the photos seen. Also, think it was possbile with the Holland and Welch Carson Customs being almost identical.

    Kenny
     
  16. It is hard to tell because the Life mag photo is not a perfect straight on side shot but the back of the door window definitley looks like a different shape between the two cars when comparing the Life shot with the Emory shot. Could just be the lighting and resolution of the photos like Jeff mentioned but it is interesting.
     
  17. Yes besides all the other interesting points,I think the rear window most definitely looks different and im not sure if the lighting can do that much.

    K13 ......I was waiting for you to pounce on what I was saying earlier. :)
     
  18. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey Jeff,

    I kinda wondered bout this as well, and it may have come to light when Bandito/Dave was workin his build and mention of the disonant colours surfaced.
    It's funny bout people's memories, ya ask about the colour of a vehicle from people who were around when it was build and some memories don't match the story line. Sometimes the ''little books'' got it wrong, given the camera man, editor or layout guy wasn't all that big on details. Some people beleve everything printed, must be factual, especially given it was printed sixty years ago, and has been quoted maybe several times since in print:eek:
    There stands to reason we may be talkin about more than one vehicle here;)
    Ask me to tell ya about my Bobby Darrin/Clark Kaiser built '59 Caddie- ''Barris built'' story sometime:D

    " Do not reach greedily for the Kool-Aid "
     
  19. Rikster
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 5,781

    Rikster
    Member

    I have been trying to find out more info on the 42-46 Ford Coupe thing for a long time now... it is still confusing to me. It looks to be one car, or at least the differences are so little that you would need identical photos of both cars - if there are more than one - to see any differences.

    The only facts I can see are the change in bumpers, color and license plates.

    What I can see is...

    One
    1949 yellow License plate 9L1709

    (not 100% sure on this number, there is a better shot showing this plate in the 1950 Rosetta program, but I do not have that)
    The car has 1948 Ford bumpers front and rear when it ran these plates.


    Two
    1950 yellow Lisence plate Yellow 78A6243
    The car has 1949 Plymouth bumpers front and rear.


    Three
    1951 black License plate 9N30226
    Seen with Plymouth rear bumper and Ford front bumper.
     
  20. Yes,that is what I was Talkin about earlier with those plates.It sure does seem like a whole lot of action in the license plate department for one car.I see NO reason why a car would change plates from 1949 to 1950.I also see a slight difference in shape of windows.Dont forget Memos story on the vent.

    Happy New Year !!!!!!
     
  21. Rikster
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 5,781

    Rikster
    Member

    The thing that does not really make sense to me is why the Ayala's would built two basically identical custom cars.
    The Holland and Wally Welch 1941 Fords have been mentioned before. But those cars are still quite different from each other in many details. Like the amount of chop, the way the hood is handled etc.

    But on this 1942-46 Ford nearly everything is done identical... if there is more than one car.
    If a client comes to Gil and says I want everything done exactly like your own personal car... I doubt if Gill would have said OK... I guess more logical would have been he sold his car to this customer as it was.
    Especially back in the day Customizing was all about making your car stand apart from everybody else, making it look different... better.
    But this car has a lot of body work going on, a lot more than say the 1940 Merc's for Andril and Zaro, or the 41 Fords for Holland and Welch.
    It just does not make sense to me so much work was done to create two identical Custom Cars with nearly every detail the same... except for the bumpers.


    The version with the Ford bumpers is listed as Gil Ayala's Ford in the Russetta program. I have no info on any period listings of the car with the Plymouth bumpers and the dark paint, as how it was seen in the 1952 Hot Rod and Motor Sports Show. The car is only identified as the Gil Ayala Ford in this version in present day magazines.

    I know about Memo... but I also know Memo was not around the shop in the early days when the photos of this or these 42-46 Ford(s) were taken. Memo owned the Ford in the later part of the 1950's.
     
  22. Lucero Merc & Mohuff Merc is another example.Two Dick Dean beautys

    Yes,Memo wasnt around then but he did buy Gils car and talked about taking off the plate and lead to get to the vent and he found no trace of that bronze color.Now if Gils car was the same one as the bronze car then Memo would of found some trace of that color in the vent area.Since Gil covered that area up I seriously doubt he was worried about a Lil bit of paint left on that vent.Remember......he was going to seal and cover it anyway.
    I think it is kind of weird that Gils wife named that Bob Gillum car after all these years.
    I still don't see why a plate would change from 49 to 50.
     
  23. Rikster
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 5,781

    Rikster
    Member

    It happened on some other cars as well. Snooky Janich Barris built 1941 Ford also changed plates in the early days. Perhaps it was when it changed owners.. from George Janich to Paul Janich. But it did happen, I have seen it before.
     
  24. ragtopking
    Joined: May 8, 2008
    Posts: 7

    ragtopking
    Member

    I would have to say Jeff has a good point, first all Memo Ortega purchased Gil’s 46, midnight blue in color which had the Zebra patterned head liner, it’s the one with 1949 Plymouth ribbed bumpers, The other car was a 1942, bronze with 1948 ford bumpers. Through out time it was believed that there was only one car and that it was a 42, but with research it was discover that Gil’s car was in fact a 46 not a 42. So indentifying Gils car as a 42 is totally incorrect. I was a 46, the title stated 46. Thx Zeke Carrillo
     
  25. Rikster
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 5,781

    Rikster
    Member


    Zeke,

    Gil's Coupe never had a Zebra pattern headliner that you listed!

    I'm not saying Jeff or anybody else who is saying there were two cars is wrong. It could very well be, but so far there have not been any real proof mentioned or shown here.


    Here are some words copied from an email conversation I had with Memo Ortega about Gil's old Ford Coupe. Memo bought the car from Gil in 1959.

    "rik i can still remember when i got it. it was
    dark blue metelic. and faded i hand rub a spot on the bottom left rear fender and i could see a little metallic faded on it. the paint was checked out from it being in the sun to long. anyway i decided to take it down to bare metal it had black primmer underneath the blue paint i took it all off to bare metal. i repainted it blue metalic again. and the interior it..,was dark blue and a off white vanella. it was a good combination i left it alone.

    i am still wondering. was there really 2 cars. i dont think so. every photo you have shows the car the same execpt the changing of the 49 plymouth bumpers."




    The Russetta program from 1950 shows Gil Ayala with Ford bumper and it list it as a 1942 (as far as I can red from this bad scan... not 46 for sure). And yes I know Memo said it was listed as a 1946 Ford on the title.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  26. 51 mercules
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 3,017

    51 mercules
    Member

    Could it be a 42 titled as 46,because of World War 2.There were no civilian cars manufactured between 43 & 45.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  27. I might need to get my eyes checked but this view looks like the window shapes are a little rounder,front and back. There are plenty of points that raise questions.Gils wifes response to the bronze pic,memos vent story and of coarse the plates.

    Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app
     

    Attached Files:

  28. Rikster
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 5,781

    Rikster
    Member

    The faded side view photo is a bit distorted (look at the front wheel) due to the fact that it was taken with a digital camera from an original photo. The close range of the camera most likely caused it to fish eye a bit.
     
  29. 51 mercules
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 3,017

    51 mercules
    Member

    Jeff you brought up some interesting points.
     
  30. Sorry I am away from all my books so don't have the info but what year did Gil go to jail? Could the change of plates from 1949 to 1950 be due to the fact that he had to reregister the car after going to jail due to his registration being revoked? I mean he went to jail for traffic offenses perhaps they took away his registration as well.
     

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