So I am trying to weigh up the odds. Should I have my 350sbc rebuilt or just buy a crate motor. What are your thoughts.
If you have a reputable machine shop locally I'm sure they would appreciate the work and you may just help them stay in business. That's a good thing if you need something down the road. I recently needed some crank work done and I went to several machine shops that just don't do that work anymore, the typical response was "I can buy a crank kit for less than I can turn one". That or, "So and so used to turn cranks here but he retired/died and we haven't replaced him"... My situation was one where buying a crank kit wasn't an option and I needed machine work. I eventually found one shop where they had a semi-retired grinder and operator and were able to do the work I needed. It took a month, but I didn't have much choice. I went into one shop, it was downstairs, under the wood floor of a very old parts store, I figured this was jackpot. There was a dingy old machine shop downstairs manned by a grey haired fellow, I knew I had found the right place then. I asked him and got the, "He passed away" story,,,,, so I asked about resizing rods and he said they didn't do them. I was standing right next to a Sunnen rod hone. Sad stuff. So anyway, if it's feasible for you, I would go with supporting a good local shop, if it's not too late.
A crate motor is actually cheaper in most cases than having one rebuilt and you get a 3 year warranty. Lots of my friends are running the basic 350 crate motor and they put in a cam for a little more power and rough idle. I just had my sbc engine machined and I only did it because I already had a good ex race motor. The machining on just the block was $800, the balancing was $200, and the head work was $500. Then I had to buy about $600 more in parts to make it a long block. That comes to about $2100 and I could have bought a nice, new one for about that or even less. But I had it so I couldn't let it go to waste. There is another downside to having yours rebuilt..........things go wrong. We sold reman engines where I worked from a well known engine rebuilder and they admitted they had a 20% failure rate. We actually had a higher failure rate than that and these were motors being built by pros who do it all day long, every day. My vote goes for crate. Don
Good answer. I experanced the same issue a while back when looking for a machine shop. That I felt comfortable with to do the work on my old 327 365 hp motor. But I ended up finding a one man shop that knew these old motors and was excited about doing the job. A few weeks ago I was out putting some test miles on the old 55 and stopped in to his shop to show off the motor. You could see a little twinkle in his eye when I fired it up and the solid lifters were clacking away under the finned corvette valve covers. It made my morning I'm sure it made his coffee a little sweeter that morning. Back to the point, it nice when you can support local small bussiness. But it's not always easy good luck with your motor choices. Ron
I went with the rebuilt route when it came to my 327,This was a decision I made early on in the build of my '32 pickup due to the fact I have a pal that is a well known and respected local engine rebuilder. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a crate engine,they can be less expensive than a rebuild and a huge time saver. HRP
I got sick of gambling with rebuilds, so on my last motor I bought a new block with rotating assembly, added aftermarket Vortec heads and cam, assembled everything myself and couldn't be happier. I located the block assembly on-line at a GM dealer near Savannah, GA for $1118.00 and no state sales tax. The icing on the cake was that it was delivered to my door here in East Tennessee at 8:30 the next morning for free. Seems they had a delivery to my local GM dealer already scheduled, so I lucked out. As far as resale................a crate motor has more validity.
You want cheap and easy, or custom built to you (and your car's) specs? Simple as that. I prefer a good rebuilder doing mine, but I have a great guy I've known for over 30 years. I have also seen at least 3 "crate" motors fail in less than 5K miles, 1 in a car I was building for a guy, in the past 2-3 years.
I sell GM Performance Parts so I'm a bit biased here. For a classic (265-283-327) rebuild a GOOD core. For a 350 or a 383, look at the new engines. 2 year,50,000 mile warranty on GM Performance engines. The 3 year,100,000 mile warranty only applies to GM Powertrain (O.E.) replacement engines,tranmissions and transfer cases installed in cataloged (correct year and model usage), non cataloged (incorrect for specific vehicle) reverts to 12 month,12,000 mile warranty. One of the factors in your rebuild is the core you start with. Turned a 350 in once that the cylinder walls were black from overheating.I personally smoked a 454 in an ambulance in the mid 80's while running hot (no pun intended) with multiple patients from a car crash out west. That engine as far as I am concerned would have been good as a boat anchor. You know it was hot when you hear the engine snap crack and pop while sitting on the side of the road. Sprung a coolant leak, it's amazing how much coolant will pump out in 25 miles at 80-85 mph. No indication of a leak until the temp gauge pegged out, probably reading metal temperature! Anyways, compare the cost to rebuild and the components needed for a accurate assesment. I sold a stroker on the basis of the aftermarket engine the customer was considering used a "seasoned" block and a cast crank instead of GM's new block and forged crank. All things to consider Warranty, if anything happens you as the customer will call yourself the GM Performance Parts team to initiate the process. You will be given a case number and instructions on where to take it for inspection if necessary. Each case is different, so I leave that up to the tech guys for resolution. . I have been involved in two warranty replacement assemblies, both were not sold by us but a national mass merchandiser. The customers were ultimately sent to me by GMPP after the determination to replace the engine and transmission was made. It was a easy fix for both, they brought in the failed component, I exchanged it for them.
There's no one "best" answer to this question. A lot depends upon how you will use your car. If it's a daily beater a crate motor or a parts store rebuilt (like those sold by O'reilly, etc.) might be just the ticket to get you back on the road quickly and at low cost. If you're not a big fan of crate motors (like me) or want something a little bit different, the smart thing to do is ask around and see what other enthusiasts have done in the recent past and get recommendations from them as to who in your area does good motor work. Don't forget to ask the local roundy-round and drag racers for their advice. Race shops are often off the normal rebuilt engine "grid" and would be my first choice.
Unless I missed it, the one thing we didn't discuss was that once you have all those nicely machined parts back from the machine shop, who is going to assemble them ? When they come back that is only the beginning, the parts need to be checked to see if they are in spec, cleaned, and then assembled by someone who isn't doing it for the first time. Besides the knowledge of how to build an engine, you also need a fair amount of specialized tools. Mikes, ring installers and compressors, accurate torque wrenches, etc. Even seasoned builders screw up one every so often. I am more of a builder than mechanic, but I can put an engine together that "probably" will be ok. But the true engine builders check things way beyond what us normal guys do and know the correct way to do things. That is why I say, for most home builders, a crate engine kinda gives us a better shot at ending up with a dependable, long lasting motor. Don
A local builder here will do a short block for around $600 unassembled. Thats labor and machining only. Northern sells the kit for $210 Sub out for better pistons and cam maybe another $200 Assemble in your garage. Now you can say you built it.
Too many rebuild horror stories out there. A Crate Motor is the way to go. I'd get the 290 HP 350 which goes for right at $2,000.00.
Thanks for all the great advice, I am glad this question didn't go down the route of "why buy a crate thats not traditional " kinda bullshit. I am lucky that my motor seems to be running fine at the minute but it had been sitting for 20 years. Its a cast iron 1968 or 1970 block but I am looking to switch it out in the winter along with the trans, Just for longevity and reliability. Thanks again for the responses.
Although I rebuilt the 327 I used in the Deuce pickup I did go the crate route 18 years ago with the engine in my 32 Sedan,,it's a 330 HP 350. HRP
Well it all depends on how comfortable you are with working on engines. Myself (retired machinist) I have all the tools to assemble and do some of the machine work. And I really enjoy working on engines. And after careful measuring, deburing and assembly, I know what I have. Ago
Id say it depends on your machine shop and what kind of prices you're seeing, but I like to build my own engines. For me scrounging for parts is half the fun. One of the most fun builds I did started with a half set of forged trw's from a friends circle track car that blew in qualifying. found another half set at the swap meet, and just went from there swapping and buying. If your not comfortable assembling it yourself, buy a crate.
I work at a machine/hot rod shop where we do all engine machine work, build engines, run them on the engine dyno if the customer wants, and plenty of other stuff. Crate motor is a four letter word around the shop as we are trying to make a living doing this stuff and people come in Summit catalog in hand wanting the same or cheaper price. Being the voice of the shop and wanting to make customers aware of the ups and downs of crate motors, I tell them all the same thing. I can't compete with the price. Period. If that is your only concern, then you would do well to go get a crate motor. I also tell them I know plenty of people who have ran them, beat on them and have not had any problems. I also know I have had 6 of them in the shop we have fixed so far this year. If you go crate motor, go with a name brand, I took apart 2 this year that had no names or part numbers on anything other than the block and crank. one had a .060" over block and a .020" - .030" crank. I had one come in a guy bought from Jegs and the oil pump failed and junked the whole engine, they offered to send him an oil pump. Another of the six smoked real bad and whoever he bought it from wanted him to pull it and ship it 2000 miles and they would look at it and decide if they were going to give him a replacement. If they decided they weren't responsible he would then have to pay to have it shipped back. We have no warranty other than the owners conscience and our reputation. We are not perfect, we have fixed our fair share of stuff for free. If it's our mistake we fix it, and I sleep very well at night. We have a name, a face and an address, If you have a problem, concern or question you can call or pop in. I have customers bring me oil filters to cut open and inspect, We go to customers houses and prime oil systems before the fire up and help with wiring, we have customers bring us beer, BBQ, cookies, brownies, whiskey and pizza. Customers that go drag racing with us, go on car cruises and parties. Just my opinion, but I think if the cost is not that far apart, go local. Who knows, you might make a friend or two along the way and help someone in your neighborhood keep the lights on.
I like building chevy's so I would vote for re-building yours, mostly because you say it is running OK now. Chances are It may not need boring. If not, your way ahead. Heck, I built the flathead in my '32 pickup...it was standard bore and crank!!!. I guess I just like doing it. Tim
I used to run a crate engine program for a legendary Detroit company. When I took over, the engines (and the blocks and heads used to build them) were garbage. The fact that they never met the advertised HP ratings was the least of our worries. Things like incorrect bore centers, core shift, valve seats falling out, blocks with different deck heights from side to side... that kind of stuff. I re-sourced EVERYTHING and promptly sold 100's of engines where the only complaint we offered to replace the engine and the customer said it was the best running one of its kind he'd ever seen. He would not send it back. So, there can be good and bad crate engines even when the company's name is supposed to mean something. I bet this didn't help you decide but if you are interested in a crate motor, the option where GMPP is standing behind it is pretty good. In any case, ask somebody who has bought one already what their experience was. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I have never bought a crate motor before partially because of the shipping costs if there was a problem. I use a local machine shop (2 person shop) with a great reputation. The additional cost (30% more) is worth it. With a sbc you may even be able to find a good used running motor from a friend or ad. There are plenty out there. Good luck.
I have built alot of pontiacs, a couple sbc and ford, tried 2 crate motors and hated them. Not putting crate motors down just rather build my own this way i know exactly whats in it. If i turn it 6000 rpm i feel better knowing that if there is a problem its my fault not some guy i dont kno. Besides i figure since its my own i might be adding alittle more tlc to it then some guy in a shop. Never had an issue with any motor i have built.
My thoughts on the matter is this.Support your local business.They will really appreciate it. Good luck.Have fun.Be safe. Leo
It's pretty hard to beat a ZZ4 long block if you are looking for a roller engine with aluminum heads and nice forged parts for around $3500. No way you are going to build that engine for that money and get a warranty. Still I would like to find a shop like Johnny Wishbones in my neighborhood. I'm replacing a flat cam in my 1973 350 now with another flat tappet cam and second guessing myself.
ZZ4 Turn-Key P/N 19201330 and Base P/N 24502609 are discontinued by GM. The ZZ4 Partial P/N 12561723 is still available but only consists of the block and rotating assembly minus camshaft, lifters,timing set and heads/valve train.
This caught my eye. If it was mine I would monitor the oil pressure and compression, and if it is up to spec I would just keep driving it.There is no reason it would "spoil" by sitting. In fact some of the parts you got back then are better than you can get today. If it is in good shape there is no reason to replace it, not for many years and miles.
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