The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hawkerdriver, Apr 25, 2018.
a buddy of mine had the same problem with a crate motor, head gasket was bad.
...suddenly I don't feel so bad about my Vortek in my F100.
Krylon32, keep us informed on what is found to be wrong, please,
A couple years ago I was considering a crate motor & did a fair amount of research.
One of the companies that looked to be about the best value was Prestige Motorsports out of
They had a real wide range of options & honestly sounded like they were interested in your build.
They made a good impression on me & were easy to talk to.
Their BBB rating was pretty good to.
I never did buy a motor from them, the Canadian dollar went to shit so I dealt with a builder up here.
If our dollar comes around I will contact them on my next project.
Interesting thread...years ago I was looking for a SBC to put in my 68 Z28 to save my MO 302 from abuse and possible destruction. After searching the www; I elected to buy a 'crate engine' from American Speed in Moline IL. That was the best decision I made....although it was a crate engine, my engine was built with a couple of my specifications and it made in excess of the HP (440) guaranteed by American Speed. They were great to work with and supposedly their machinist worked for Jenkins back in the day.
Please post up your results!
[QUOTE="1927graham, post: 12546812, member: 69352" My 496" BBC is scheduled to dyno Tuesday, May 1st, excited.
I haven't ever bought a crate motor but I will say the last two motors that I built myself cost as much or more than a crate motor would have. One was a 350 Chevy, other one a 360 Dodge. Outsourced the machine work, did the rest myself. Do it yourself you know what's in it, buy it in a crate and get a warranty. Both can be good options.
I have a targetmaster crate engine in my T-bucket previously with a 4-71 blower,now has twin turbos.The engine is basicly stock and I have driven it for 4 years. Also the local dirt track"crate lates" all run the Hecho in mexico target master engines
Well let see ... Canadian to US dollar exchange is 1.3108 today. That would make my $4500 rebuild $3433 in US dollars. Does that make it sound a little less stupid??
Still stupid for a stock rebuild.
I will be installing a crate GM Performance Ram Jet 350 into a Dearborn Duece/Pete & Jakes combination soon.
It will be run on a dyno before it goes into the car.
pls reread my post. I did not pay $4500 cdn to rebuild. I thought while it was exorbitant ... it was not necessarily "stupid". The cost of doing business where raw industrial land costs $1,000,000 per acre means shit ain't cheap. Didn't think it warranted telling the one automotive machine shop where I live that it/he was stupid. That's not how I roll.
...and as I posted, I did purchase an L31 long block from my GM dealer for $3200 cdn tax in. Once again doing the math the Summit L31 @ $2067 USD x 1.31% exchange + 12% Cdn taxes = $3032 Cdn. So I left $138.00 on the table I guess. Not really the end of the world and not really stupid imho
You re-read your post. ^^^^
You asked if $3433 USD for a rebuild sounded less stupid than $4500.00
No, it does not and 3433 is still stupid for a STOCK rebuild.
Re read my posts back towards the top.
Machine shops can not compete with stock spec engine that's mas produced and shipped in a crate, No way. Asking any machine shop for a stock rebuild on a SBC is stupid and the shop owner should tell you that. Makes all the sense of refilling a disposable lighter. Where that local machine shines brightest is on the hi performance build, up in a playground where things are not mas produced. The local shop can be much more competitive. This is a hot rod site right? Where we are expected to build stupid fast stuff.
Things might change for the foreign mass produced engines place in the market and the local machine shops ability for competition if the tariffs get placed and NAFTA get re negotiated.
For sure. I think we are both thinking in the same direction but expressing it differently. The guy sure looked lonely in the machine shop.
CRATE UPDATE. My deuce coupe has been sitting at the Chevy dealership for 11 days with no action. I've been there 3 times including today and every time they say we're going to get at it tomorrow. I'm beginning to get a message they don't give a dam. Today the service manager ask me the history of the engine and I told him his dealership wholesaled it to Speedway and I bought it there. Suddenly his attitude went from caring to seeming unconcerned if they ever worked on it. Talked to Speedway and since they've changed GM crate engine suppliers their hands are tied? I'll be back there tomorrow afternoon for a followup and everyday until they either tell me to go to hell or attempt to fix it. This problem may end up on me. I really don't care to buy a new engine! TO BE CONTINUED?
Kinda different now from the first post about the Dealer.
Here's your problem:
First You've got flat rate guys who are looking at an obscure issue.
Who ever is forced to take your car on will loose his ass so they will dump it on the lowest qualified oil change master after you bitch enough. Then the guy is looking at an engine that hasn't been produced since 2001, in a ford, with some stuff they have never ever seen before. You'd think the best guy would get your issue right,, no way because he can't turn enough flat rate hrs on it and that's a penalty to the best guy.
Damn, quit beating around the bush and tell folks what you really think. This epistle has to be the most accurate and most telling regarding warranties that are handled by a dealership where they have made no money and have no prayer of making any money. Why would warranties on a crate engine be handled any differently than any other warranty problem on a new vehicle? I'm waiting...................................................
I ran across the same issue on a new car. The warranty was basically useless. Fuck dealership service departments! (and I used to be a Service Mgr at a heavy equip dealer, I know exactly what they're up against)
I have bought 2 crate engines with excellent results, 1 from a speed shop, dyno ran, broke in, ready to rock, other GM crate from Jegs, no problems, ran/runs great. To rebuild a engine today correctly, cost is similar to a new crate, you have to deal w/engine machine shop and need assembly skills. tools etc. IMO today, crate engine is the way to go. My opinion and $2 gets you a coffee anywhere I eat breakfast.
Traditional I do not remember talking about crate engines in the 60s.
They were called service replacement engines & they also came in a shipping crate.
Some how the masses deemed the operative descriptor to be "crate" and that's the current vernacular. They say ignorance is bliss and I say let them keep it ,,,
^^^^ yep-1966 bought 327's complete from Rodman Chevrolet Fresno Recall a 365HP 327 shortblock was $325!!
CRATE UPDATE: Just heard from the dealership service manager and they're laying the problem on the Zips 6 cylinder water pump not moving enough water at idle. He said when you speed up the motor the temp at the right rear corner drops back to 185. and stays that way until dropping back to idle? Recommends over driving the pump with a smaller pulley. The current pullry is 6.25 and the smallest one I can find is 5.75. We are going to heat gun my deuce pu which has the same setup this afternoon to see if it's doing the same thing. TO BE CONTINUED
There are 2 different 6 cyl pumps and one moves more water because the impeller is different.
But it sounds like BS.
Logic says if it's the pump then there's lots of hot spots, all over in random places. Right? Sounds like a restriction or casting sand stuck in the head.
Sears, Wards, Western Auto, Pep Boys and countless dealerships were selling short blocks as well as long block replacement engines in the fifties and sixties. And they were shipped in CRATES!!!
Some years ago helped a friend and he had one of those 290HP crate motors. It ran on the hot side and really was not very peppy. We tried a few things and he finally took it out and we put a nice little 327 in it's place. A lot more snap, no heating issues and is still running strong. The dealer/warranty thing was a joke so now it's in his dump run truck. He has 3 40 fords from here and two have stout little 327's, the other has another crate motor from GM. The 327 cars are much more responsive and just "feel" right-the crate motor one not so much. The current 40 in progress has a fresh 327 ready to go as well. I had a couple of ZZ motors as well-ran OK but had piston slap/noise from the onset-they are still around but noisy.
FYI-we just picked up two 327's, one being a fresh high end build with 500 miles-these came from guys swapping out for new from GM LS motors.
the won't do it, but I would like to see the cylinder heads swapped side-to-side and see if the problem moves. Or if it is the head gasket, problem is still solved.
Hawkers mark their spot.......with fuel.
Yep, shouldn't take but a few hrs.
I'd pull the offending head and force water thru the cold end and watch for a lesser flow at the hot spot. There'd be 5 streams all flowing a nice 2" high fountain and one doing next to nothing. Obstruction could be in the block as well.
We flushed out a Stripped down engine block,
it was in service for 40 some odd years and and had about 80k miles on it. When you pop out the freeze plugs and poke around the back side of the cylinder sleeves it's mind blowing how much sand is hiding back there. Some chuncks we broke loose were way too big to pass between the cylinders or come out of the freeze plug holes. I know some internal surfaces never saw any coolant.
I talked to a friend this afternoon that builds high horsepower engines for hot rods and late models and he plugs the bypass hole in the water pump and uses a bypass thermostat, says it makes a 20 degree difference in temp?
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