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Folks Of Interest Crap sack mechanics , does anyone know why they do the work they do?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by VANDENPLAS, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,792

    Member Emeritus

    Some people just don't give a fuck.
  2. 47ragtop
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 664


    YOU THINK ??
    seb fontana likes this.
  3. Seems to be a consensus out there on ability and intellect.
    I think we have all been there wether for us or a customer where a “ macgyver” repair is needed to get the thing going. The Friday at 4pm quick fix to get you home or the customer to finish loading etc. And here is where the “ smarts” or intellect part comes in, is KNOWING MONDAY MORNING TO GET THE RIGHT PARTS AND FIX IT CORRECTLY !!!
    I work with a guy from the islands, great guy and can basically build you a forklift with duct tape wand mechanics wire, wich is a fine skill to have, but more often then not he “ fixes something “ then I get called in a month or so later to a WTF repair. Boss loves this guy as he gets the customer up
    And running quick, but it’s never finished right.
    Also work with guys that I call “ institutionalized” if it’s not fixed exactly with the same parts, tools , fluids etc as the service manual they simply can’t fix it.
    Who is better? My Thinking is they are both in the same box.
    Last house I lived in I did basically a full house renovation, started as a playroom in the basement for the kids and ended up with a full basement Reno, with a kitchen and bathroom and all bathrooms kitchen floors fireplace etc etc. When it came time for drywall, plaster and paint. I weighed my options , 1 I can do it myself and learn, it’s gonna take wayyyy to long and I know where my patience is with plaster and paint ( it drives me nuts) option 2 pay an expert. Went with option 2 and in 2!weeks the house was done, besides minor touch ups and after 9 months the wife was happy again.
    I agree that trades and skills like them are falling by the way side in favour of college and university education and not to knock them or put them down, but how many arts and English major grads do we need?
    I’m 40 and I’m the young guy at the parts counter, there really are no 18-19 year olds outta high school doing this stuff anymore. Also see a lot of guys bounce around from shop to shop, seems they last a year or 2 then when it’s discovered they can’t fix a sandwich never mind a piece of equipment they move onto the next place, and because on paper ( resume) they have years of experience and this and that they get hired on and the circle continues.

    Being smart is also knowing when something is out of your range of expertise and calling in someone who is. Does that make you a bad mechanic? I don’t think so

    FDA99540-AA5A-447D-82C3-D854998E641E.jpeg 3E46189B-C2A4-456E-9943-43A03923C21D.jpeg
    Hnstray likes this.
  4. I do work on this thing at a customers , metal shredder 18 liter cat turbo diesel and some big ass hydraulic pumps, I do the maintenance and pretty much all engine and hydraulic repairs, some of the knives have chipped and worn out
    Told the customer to call in the dealer, but I would like to be there that day to see what all the dealer does as far as adjustments, welding and replacing.
    As then the next time I should be able to tackle that as well.
    Hnstray likes this.
  5. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,661


  6. mountainman2
    Joined: Sep 16, 2013
    Posts: 323


    But it took a lot of work for me to get perfect. In the past, I was conceited but I finally got past that fault and now I am perfect! :D

    Wife said I needed a disclaimer (even though it was made in jest) for the above statement as some of the content is NOT true. Now, if we could only agree on which part. :(
  7. Bubba1955
    Joined: Jul 8, 2013
    Posts: 463


  8. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,233

    from Quincy, IL

    note: started this post prior to post #36 appearing........

    In all fairness to everybody, 'perfection' is not an efficient goal, even if it were attainable. So, in most efforts, there is a level of quality that is 'commercially acceptable' because the pursuit beyond a professional and competent repair is too costly in time and effort to be worth it to most customers.

    Now, the term might have higher standards attached to it in, say, nuclear power plant repairs, or even a paint shop, than a muffler or water pump replacement.

    For those who either are willing to invest the time and effort on a personal project, or pay a professional for the time required to attain their idea of good enough, they are entitled to the best their time or money will achieve.

    There is an old saying...."don't let perfection be the enemy of the good enough"......better something be done adequately, than not at all.

    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  9. For me, (yep everyone is different) if I aim at perfect, I'm increasing the chances of a favorable out come, increasing the likelihood of success, generally guaranteed of a pretty nice outcome and I'm probably going to land very near where I aimed. There's some sort of weird down range windage that prevents ever hitting perfect.

    When I do aim at good enough I might hit it, I might come high, I might come in low to good enough too. Then there's the subjective argument of what good enough really means to who matters.

    Somedays I aim at don't give a fuck and usually hit something allegorically equivalent to the living room window, you know the big expensive one. Fuck me !!! Sometimes it don't matter.

    Sometimes I might give the customer what they want, $50 worth a $5000 job, to get them thru a task, sometimes I tell them to take a hike because I know I'll be asked to repeat the 50 worth 100 times over.
  10. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,233

    from Quincy, IL

    Well stated. I do agree that "aiming at perfect" is a great strategy and improves the outcome....and my approach is similar to yours, even though individual results may vary.

    I have a long time friend who is a master at several disciplines whose workmanship inspires as much emulation as personal talent will permit..sort of a secular version of WWJD? in this case, WWBD?

    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  11. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 30,185


    Had a student in my class that had a real sweet 74 Cougar that he had worked and saved and bought. Thing sprung a leak in the power steering pressure hose and his old man said that he didn't need a new hose and proceeded to cut the hose in two at the leak, insert a pipe nipple in the hose and twist bailing wire tight after wrapping several wraps around it. A day or so later I and several students are out back behind the shop and here he comes flying around the corner in the car with smoke rolling out from under it. We had the pressure washer and a hose going and called the fire department along with using up ever fire extinguisher we had in the shop and the car burned to the ground even though the fire trucks got there in less than five minutes. Cheap ass bugger who wouldn't run the kid to town so he could buy a 20.00 hose cost him his car.
  12. coilover
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 674

    from Texas

    !950 Ford pickup came into shop for us to pull a 455 Olds and put in an LS3. Owner never mentioned that the ifs front clip welds might need a bit of touching up. I guess he felt if it held up under a 455 then a smaller engine shouldn't be a problem.

    Owner DROVE a 1950 F1 to the shop for us to pull a 455 Olds and put in an LS3. He didn't say anything about touching up the IFS front clip welds.
    IMG_4144 (1).JPG IMG_4137 (1).JPG
    Squablow, Engine man and Dave Mc like this.
  13. coilover
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 674

    from Texas

    Apologize for the double entry.
  14. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,233

    from Quincy, IL

    That's why I became friends with the "edit" button at the bottom of the post.....hit that and you may change the content of your post. I depend on that feature..:oops:

    also, you can delete an entire post, if desired, by using the "delete" option.

    Atwater Mike and upspirate like this.
  15. Holy shit cool over !!!! Your putting it lightly with touching up the welds !!!! Dang looks like wedding wire and scrap metal were just thrown at that thing untill it stuck, Holt crap.

    Well put 31vicky, I always try to do the best I can st anything I do, as you do nicely stated “ down range windage” the mark seems to get slightly missed at times.
    I find when I start a job thinking it’s going to be a cake walk , easy peasy, lemon squeezy, is when it turns into a complete nightmare and the shit starts flying.rhink I would learn and not approach jobs in this manner, nah , that don’t happen, guess I’m still to young for that.

    Mr48chevy, this is just what I’m talking about, bailing wire to hold a high pressure steering hose together? It’s a cheap fix and should have been fixed right, now the kid is out a car.

    I think for some of these guys it’s the simple fact they fixed it them selves and did it cheap that gets them off. No matter what the end result is.

    My first “ old car” was a 53 Chrysler with fluid drive trans in my early 20’s. The car developed a bad leak at a seal between the torque converter and clutch assembly. Drove the car while looking for parts and the only thing I could find was a complete rebuilt kit for a 1000 bucks!! Ended up pulling the tranny and there was 2 lip seals and a bearing in there. Cleaned them found part numbers and ordered them from a bearing supply house. $53 bucks for all 3 parts . Identical to what I took out . Drove that thing 3 more years before I sold it. Had guys telling me im a hack for not doing the “ full rebuild” as that was the only way to get the right parts. Could not get it across that a bearing is a bearing is a bearing, the part number denotes size and working load/rpm also the seal, seals and bearings don’t care what they are doing as long as they are specd right. Some guys need to see it come out of a factory box to know it’s right.
  16. Good lord..About the worst I've ever seen .The top gusset plate isn't even welded to the sub frame rail.
    VANDENPLAS and Hnstray like this.
  17. Was 196 #'s
    Joined: Dec 18, 2016
    Posts: 63

    Was 196 #'s

    Fifty years ago one of my calculus teachers used to say, "The inertia of ignorance is infinite." Those are cautionary words to live by when you deal with people you don't know well.
    Chavezk21 and VANDENPLAS like this.
  18. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,383


    Along the lines of I don't have enough time to do it right but I have enough time to do it over.
    Truck64, upspirate and VANDENPLAS like this.
  19. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,375


    Shit! I don't claim to be the best or neatest welder on the planet but I use to repair most things on my semi trailer (tractor trailer) when I owned it without a problem but that is something I wouldn't drive around as paddock basher let alone on the highway.
  20. coilover
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 674

    from Texas

    Of course I'm guilty of the other extreme of being a neat fanatic. As bad as the 50 F1 is the time I spend on one is nearly as ridiculous. At 50 cents an hour I'd have to sell one for a 100 grand to even come close to monetary recovery. This 31 A frame has NO filler on the welds, just deep tig welds that have the tops of the puddle waves ground. If needed I use a very soft contact rod to act as Bondo. Many hours of grinding on something that can't even be seen, how crazy is that? If they could combine the DNA's of the crappy with my nut case it should make a sensible build.

    Attached Files:

  21. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,220

    from Ioway

    There are a lot of different angles on what makes people tick, the military has (like so many things) studied this to death (no pun intended I guess) and pretty much wrote the book. Human factors. Industry too. How do you motivate someone to do a good job? It's not easy. QC is built in from the beginning, it isn't inspected in.

    Aptitude is one thing, work ethic, motivation, attention to detail, competence, a devotion to excellence, a process of continual improvement, all of those things are great attributes. Keep in mind we can take our time, and take a break anytime we please, when we're working for ourselves, in our own garage. Some projects take years, or are never really done. Short answer - let's see the quality of your work when you haven't slept for days, the weather is 10° F, or it's raining, people are lined out the door etc.

    Where people are encouraged to cut corners, is of course when they are under extreme pressure and pressed for time, when they are rushed, every day is an Emergency "get 'er done" and it's never ending crisis management, management acts like slave drivers... It takes a certain type of person who will not compromise their standards under those conditions.

    There's also clear differences in troubleshooting and maintenance philosophy depending on who is paying for the parts. When I was in the .mil I never knew where the money came from exactly. They always told us we were broke. "Well you better shit yourself a GE T701 then, or it ain't goin' anywhere." But I would always replace if there was any question.

    Oftentimes my weekend would be ruined due to unexpected maintenance or repairs, I made sure the supposed problem or fault was really the problem. More than once it was something minor mimicking some major deal and the weekend was saved simply by paying attention. I was motivated to do so because it was _my_ time at stake, the pay was the same regardless. I enjoyed the work but weekends, I thought, were mine, or should be. Always underpromise and overdeliver.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
  22. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,370

    Hot Rods Ta Hell

    Well there's stupidity, ignorance and then you have someone with average or better smarts but lack of knowledge of how to do a correct repair so they wing it rather than investing the time and effort to learn what steps (or skills) need to be taken to complete a quality job.
    This leads me to mention what I've found (in working in industrial jobs for 40+ years) to be a huge common denominator at the core of poor or sloppy workmanship: LAZINESS!

    Many people are inherently LAZY. Too lazy to study, find the answer, hone their skills, seek advise, find the proper part, hardware or tool, etc.
    I have a coworker that is super lazy. He literally drags his heels when he walks. He'll set his tools and self down at a repair, then spend as long as it takes to do the repair with whatever he has on hand. I tell him "walk back to your service truck and grab the stuff you need once you diagnose the problem". His answer: "oh hell no, that's too much work". He spends 30 minutes bandaging up a repair when he'd have been done in 10 minutes (with a correct repair) if he'd have walked back to his truck. This is the type of guy that will slap on bondo an inch thick and spent 2 hours sanding and sculpting it rather than 15 minutes of hammer/dolly work and a skim of rage.
    He fully admits he's lazy. Says his grades in school were always poor because he was too lazy and unmotivated to study. His parents worked with the school district/psychologist, and they determined he had above average intelligence but was too lazy/uninterested in studying. He attributes his life long weight problems and ho-hum career and personal life to laziness. States he's too lazy to grocery shop or prepare meals, so he exists on fast food.
    Most look at him as a dumb lazy guy, when in fact he's a very smart lazy guy. So, he's not stupid. He's plenty smart, but has this horrific habit of being LAZY.
  23. Lazy????
    Spent many years in professional Motorsports
    (IMSA Porsche team)
    Got laid off/fired/let-go, for doing 10 Times the job, I do now, working at the city Garage
    These guys kill me, with their lackluster service and coffee breaks. Maybe it’s my northern work ethic or the being a professionally trained factory mechanic. Ran my own shop for years and you don’t stay open for very long doing crappy work. Spent countless nights diagnosing hard to find problems or sweating the details on a motor swap, not getting paid anymore.
    I see it at my job, clear as day, the few good technicians, are the ones that are passionate about their craftsmanship. One guy about to retire(Thank God!!!), only became a mechanic, to feed his family. In other words, did not grow up, going out of his way to build hot rods or customs.
    As a modern day car club, one of our missions is to bring the younger generation into this hobby and teach them the skills, on doing the things the old fashioned way.
    IMHO, that’s part of what fueled the stupid Rat Rod craze. “Let’s just throw together some piece of shit, just so we can show up at a car show and try and be cool.
    My uncle said, the only reason cars where primered, back in the 50’s, was because you hadn’t saved up enough money yet, to do a proper paint job.

    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
  24. Bubba1955
    Joined: Jul 8, 2013
    Posts: 463


    “A man’s gotta know his limitations.”--"Dirty" Harry Calihan--Magnum Force
  25. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,279

    Ned Ludd

    I find this in my work. My employers are wary of putting me on anyone else's CAD drawings for fear that I'd redraw them from scratch. Often I can't see any other way.

    I can't figure out how those drawings get drawn. I've thought about spending half a day sitting behind someone drawing to see how they go about it, but I generally don't have time for that. As it is, I can't understand how doing the drawings the way I find them isn't a lot more work than doing it right from the get-go. Some of it is plain neglect, like a total lack of layer discipline, or bad habits like using Windows copy/paste for drawing elements. Some I don't understand, but I think it's due to simple ignorance of fairly basic functions, like AutoCAD's "@" keyboard-input convention, or the fact that there is such a thing as Orthomode. Colleagues of mine watched me using keyboard distance inputs and thought I was using a different programme. But I can't think that eyeballing a thing and then free-stretching it back and forth until the dimensions read right can be less work than typing in the dimension you want once.

    Laziness: It could be argued that the sum total of human endeavour throughout history has ultimately been driven by laziness. The final purpose of all human creation of structure, be it institutional or physical, is to allow you to sit down afterwards with only a minimal chance of immediately having to get up again. The problem nowadays is the emergence of a thing you might call anti-structure, around which I haven't really managed to get my head yet. This is where things previously done to establish structure are reconfigured so that you still have to do the work, but you don't get the benefit of any resulting structure afterwards. Some days it feels like the whole world is going that way.
    williebill, tb33anda3rd and Hnstray like this.
  26. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414


    I love hacks. They kept my shop open for years. Someone would buy their junk and they would bring it to me to fix. Thank God for hacks.
  27. My dad used to say that when business is slow for the window glazer, they give away free BB guns.

    That cliche statement can be unpacked and volumes of profound text can be written about it.
    Atwater Mike, williebill and Lepus like this.
  28. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,191

    Blue One
    from Alberta

    Hnstray likes this.
  29. WTF really
    Joined: Jul 9, 2017
    Posts: 1,261

    WTF really

    I was young dumb and full of cum at one time. No money and even less knolage. I just needed a way to go get beer and whores so what ever I had was what it was getting. My dad worked all the time so had very little time to teach me. I took a couple classes in school and after fixing stuff every week from redoing my rigging. I slowly have learned a lot. Now I'm learning these flathead engine from so much help from the HAMB. You don't learn if you don't try. So all that rigging got me where I am today.
    winduptoy and Hnstray like this.
  30. there are a lot of hacks out there and as stated there are levels of acceptable/good/perfect. there is a cafe in town that makes a 1/2 pound burger with caramelized onions, bacon and monterey jack cheese. served on brioche bun. perfection! $14. mcdonalds sells a burger on there dollar menu they sell billions of.
    picture are of a recent job i needed to make look right........had to convince them it needed to be redone after they spent big money having a metal "guru" weld these much bondo would you need to get this to straighten out?:rolleyes: DSCF0002.JPG DSCF0003.JPG DSCF0024.JPG DSCF0025.JPG

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