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Hot Rods Cowl Steering . . . just stop !

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Pete Eastwood, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 8,703

    anthony myrick
    Member

    that looks cool
    but I think I would want to add some kind of radius rod support
     
    loudbang likes this.
  2. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,440

    The37Kid
    Member

    Thanks Rootie! The car is in Bill Smith's Speedway collection. Bob

    [​IMG]
     
    continentaljohn, Jet96, brEad and 3 others like this.
  3. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 8,703

    anthony myrick
    Member

    that Chevrolet guy was smart.....except for walking away from his name and AC
     
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  4. kursplat
    Joined: Apr 22, 2013
    Posts: 295

    kursplat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    i keep trying to explain it to my wife by telling her to get on the bed and i'll show you, but she still doesn't trust me after i used that gambit to explain toe-in
     
    Asphalt Angel, Jet96, brEad and 3 others like this.
  5. Digger_Dave
    Joined: Apr 10, 2001
    Posts: 2,517

    Digger_Dave
    Member

    ;)
    Pete; first of all, a BIG THANKS for the "lessons!"
    Confirmed the way I built my "A" Tudor was reasonably correct.
    (Not COWL steered!)
     
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  6. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,313

    gearheadbill
    Member

    This is what the steering looks like when you've got a bigger budget than sense.
     
    TTR, verde742, tfeverfred and 3 others like this.
  7. Vonn Ditch
    Joined: Aug 8, 2013
    Posts: 105

    Vonn Ditch
    Member
    from LA

    nice car
     
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  8. sr
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 400

    sr
    Member
    from Monterey

    Thanks Pete. Please continue to share you wisdom. I still have Waite's 27.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  9. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    Sidebar:
    My understanding is that after Alfred P. Sloan added Louis' company to General Motors the two men disagreed about the type of vehicles Chevrolet would build and this lead to Mr. Chevrolet leaving.
    -Dave
     
  10. hotrod1948
    Joined: Jan 17, 2011
    Posts: 490

    hotrod1948
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Milton, WI

    I realize this is off topic but I always thought Durant bought up Chevrolet then leveraged it all by buying up GM stock, I din't think Sloan had anything to do with on boarding Chevrolet. Didn't Sloan come in from New Departure after the Dupont's were running GM?
     
  11. 26hotrod
    Joined: Nov 28, 2009
    Posts: 963

    26hotrod
    Member
    from landis n c

    Just reread post#1. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience of 40 some odd years. Now back to the P&J catalog....……..
     
  12. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    I'd forgotten the earlier history of Mr. Durant & Mr. Chevrolet forming the Chevrolet Motor Car Company. But, I still believe it was Mr. Sloan who wanted to use Chevrolet as the low price competitor to Ford. Louis Chevrolet wanted to build "better" cars than that and was forced out.
    -Dave
     
  13. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,440

    The37Kid
    Member

    [​IMG] Figured this photo needed to be added to this thread. I believe that is the Spencer '32 in front of the pack. Bob
     
  14. No. And it's an A.

    But someone was asking about early hot rod headlights. The first two at least both have Guides.
     
  15. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,440

    The37Kid
    Member

    You are correct, I looked at the windshield and clipped frame horns, never looked at the cowl closely.:oops:


    Bob
     
    Stogy likes this.
  16. Mark Hysong
    Joined: Dec 4, 2016
    Posts: 28

    Mark Hysong
    Member

    Wow......18 pages on bump steer ! So we all use 1920s technology and cry about bad handling.....go figure
     
  17. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 21,230

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not sure what we are talking about is 1920s technology maybe more about how it is misunderstood, reconfigured and called correct.

    It seems to many being a hotrodder involves ignoring correct geometry which was understood by the automakers and many in race long before the OP who also understands, raised this issue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  18. No, it's about not fucking up geometry that was correct to begin with.
     
  19. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 21,230

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It might not be a 32 but it certainly is a pretty cool non cowl steering group of interested parties which are welcome to listen in to what may have to be considered if they choose to modify...that's a great pic Bob.​
     
  20. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,440

    The37Kid
    Member

    I took it off the Vintage shots from days gone by thread, it was posted by Ramblin Dan, sorry I forgot to give him credit when I posted it. Now we need Jimmy to ID all the cars.


    Bob
     
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  21. 3blapcam
    Joined: Jul 15, 2004
    Posts: 526

    3blapcam
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    Great thread with great examples (visuals) of bump steer. It took me hours read through all 18 pages of data & complaints! :)

    My plan was to use cowl steering on my next project, but will definitely give it a second look. I'm pretty favorable to drag link style steering and it looks to be OK as long as I get the drag link connection to the pitman arm located near the locating point of the front hair pin with the frame! I still have plenty of time to figure that out though...

    3blap.
     
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  22. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,958

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Spoken like a guy who whose car handles like crap. FYI, not every hot rod has bad handling....
     
  23. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 455

    Xman
    Member

    3W Larry Wonder what he would have said about all this.
    [​IMG]
     
  24. verde742
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 5,725

    verde742
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. a veteran died today

    Ask Bruce Meyers,current owner, how it handles...???????
     
  25. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,777

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I absolutely love how some folks think that The Laws of Physics are actually just The Friendly Suggestions of Physics.
     
  26. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 10,210

    flatheadpete
    Member
    from Burton, MI

    ...patiently waiting. I miss that guy.
     
  27. 50DropTop
    Joined: May 6, 2004
    Posts: 206

    50DropTop
    Member

    Ok, so I thought I had it, but now I’m confused again. I was thinking post #126 was perfect.

    Red arc being from end of wishbone to steering point
    Black arc being from end of drag link/pitman arm to steering point.

    These two arcs needed to be in the same plane to minimize bump steer.

    In post #127, the black arc is not through the steering point....this has me scratching my head.

    So does the black arc in 127 go from the end of the drag link to the mounting point of the spindle (the axle) and the red arc from the mounting point of the wishbone to the mounting point of the drag link (the steering arm)?
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
    loudbang likes this.
  28. GuyW
    Joined: Feb 23, 2007
    Posts: 570

    GuyW
    Member

    Yep. A societal sickness fostered by our dis-education system...what matters is what we want or what is kool or what everybody else says they want - not what is true, tested and/or provable...in other words - the antithesis of hot rodding
     
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  29. Stan Back
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 1,185

    Stan Back
    Member
    from California

    This is an interesting approach - using an intermediate bell crank to put the steering pivot in the right place. There is a lot of interesting stuff on this car -- it's pretty over the top.

    View attachment 3960684

    I think this needs to be more complex so we can really appreciate it.
     
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  30. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 571

    Desmodromic
    Member

    In all 3 sketches, the red arc is associated with the wishbone; the black, with the drag link. You are correct, the black arc in the last sketch should have been drawn through the pivot point on the front of the drag link. The objective is obviously to get both arcs to coincide. If this were drawn full scale, you can measure the distance between the two arcs at, for example, 2 inches above the static intersection point, to give you an indication of the bump steer magnitude. (Note that a divergence between arcs of say 1", the actual angle through which the wheel turns depends on length of the steering arm; the shorter the steering arm, the more severe the bump steer will be. )
     
    loudbang likes this.

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