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Hot Rods Cowl Steering Again

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by krylon32, Sep 8, 2023.

  1. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,360

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    Might as well close this thread since we've went from discussing Cowl Steering to buying kitchen appliances. Another good thread shot to hell!
     
    hotrodA, clem, '29 Gizmo and 2 others like this.
  2. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,248

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    How about installing an NBC sprint car power steering coming out the side of that cooler box, have the steering wheel on the door to open it. Run the hydraulic pump off the back end of the cooler motor.
    Maybe rig the drag link going through the back wall and out to just over the dog's bed so it would scratch his back.
     
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  3. I didn’t mean to derail the thread here, just thought it was interesting what happened.

    Anyway, I find it difficult to get a box in the optimal location so that the pitman arm isn’t too long and in the right spot all the while not totally obliterating the already crowded foot space. That’s the main issue.
    Moving the box up solves the space issue and then creates the parallelogram problem and long pitman arms.
    I’ve certainly never got to drive Doane Spencer’s roadster, nor have I ever heard anyone say it’s horrible to drive with unruly bump steer .
    Maybe they have and I missed it.
    It’s a fun thing to copy though and nice to look at.
    95E8C77D-8EB9-4C2D-AD63-3E4FF5E320E9.jpeg 39FC9B84-7647-4414-A49D-266C2C78CF0E.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

    twenty8 likes this.
  4. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,360

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    The Doane Spencer car has the look and apparently the right geometry but have never heard Bruce Meyer comment on how it drives. Bruce and his wife did drive 3 window Larry's car from LA to Deuce Days in Canada a few years ago so it must drive tolerable? My roadster drove good after I installed a steering stabilizer as suggested by the Bones guys. My complaint was how hard it turned at a stop or very low speeds a product of the 8 to 1 gearing in the box. I thank everyone for the critiques. I'll probably end up with a Vega. Don't have $3700 to spend on an Outlaw system.
     
  5. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,306

    alchemy
    Member

    I think every non-power box will have some extra effort required for standing turns. Not just just the low-ratio ones. The F-1 box in my sedan has a normal-ish ratio (16:1?) and I sure am glad I have a 17” steering wheel.
     
  6. Even in a modern daily with power you should really be rolling before turning the wheel. I taught my 16 year old this a couple years back when he got his permit. Saves wear and tear on the tread, especially on rough surfaces!
     
    clem, dana barlow and AmishMike like this.
  7. 31Apickup
    Joined: Nov 8, 2005
    Posts: 3,351

    31Apickup
    Member

    Pete has stated that the Doane Spencer roadster does indeed have bump steer.
     
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  8. winr
    Joined: Jan 10, 2008
    Posts: 217

    winr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any put the center of the front tire close to the centerline of the kingpin on cowl steering ??

    Or know of any vehicle such ??


    Ricky.
     
  9. That would take a FWD style offset or no brakes to line up that way. I HAVE seen some landspeed guys do it for a couple reasons.
     
    winr likes this.
  10. winr
    Joined: Jan 10, 2008
    Posts: 217

    winr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ahhh, thanks..... are all older rods like that.. the wheel offset that is ??

    On my 65 F100 I have 5.5" wide front wheels that are 1/8"or 1/4" off center from the king pins

    Steers fairly easy for a truck


    Ricky
     
  11. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,306

    alchemy
    Member

    I don’t think the scrub radius has much effect on bump steer. At least not like the steering input angles fighting as occurs with normal cowl steering geometry.

    Now, I would think scrub radius has a big effect on death wobble issues though.
     
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  12. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,734

    Marty Strode
    Member

    He would know, he probably restored it !
     
  13. Pat
    Joined: Jan 6, 2002
    Posts: 186

    Pat
    Member
    from Felton Ca.

    upload_2023-9-16_6-51-37.png I always read these cowl steering threads with interest. I have a 8 to 1 midget box. Norm Rapp in South SF used to sell these boxes for $275 used 25 years ago. Back then I did it for many reasons. Doane Spencer’s car had it, Race cars had it, it was actually somewhat affordable and I thought it looked really cool. I slowed the steering ratio a bit with a shorter pitman arm and made a longer steering arm on the spindle like the Spencer 32. I added extra caster for the quick ratio, around 7.5 degrees.I wanted the drag link to sit parallel with the wishbone for aesthetics and I thought it would decrease bumpsteer. It doesn’t. Eastwood is 100% correct. When driving on the highway I really don’t notice it. Steering effort is much higher than a traditional steering box. A buggy spring may only have about 3” of travel but when you come out of a driveway at an angle and the spring pivots side to side the steering wheel really moves around. If I understood bumpsteer geometry in my 20’s better maybe I would’ve built something different. Recently I’ve thought of an imposter set up. Dummy aluminum drag link and a bearing supported pitman arm. Then run a early Ford cross steering box on the frame.
     
  14. silent rick
    Joined: Nov 7, 2002
    Posts: 5,162

    silent rick
    Member

  15. Pat
    Joined: Jan 6, 2002
    Posts: 186

    Pat
    Member
    from Felton Ca.

    25 year old me vs. 51 year old me would like easier steering. Probably won’t change it though.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  16. silent rick
    Joined: Nov 7, 2002
    Posts: 5,162

    silent rick
    Member

    No, I meant the imposter set up
     
    Pat likes this.
  17. Pat
    Joined: Jan 6, 2002
    Posts: 186

    Pat
    Member
    from Felton Ca.

    I’m ready to paint. Would have to reconfigure the dash, bracing, pedals, fill in the cowl. I did a build thread many years ago. It’s all pretty integrated. But I still think cowl steering looks great.
     
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  18. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,066

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Follow your heart!
     
    31Vicky with a hemi likes this.
  19. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,128

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    The same reason there are phoney ardun look valve cover ,quick change look differential covers dummy blowers with a carb inside , 15" wide tires on a 150 HP car. Water pumps with a gilmer drive etc ,etc ...pretenders , kinda like the roll of quarters guys ...LOL
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2023
  20. Have seen it. This sedan is set up like that.
    [​IMG]
     
    Pat likes this.
  21. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,577

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    This was done on Kurtis Indy Roadsters back in the early 50s. Look at pictures of the Chrysler/Firestone roadster, or the 53 and 54 winning car, both have "cowl" steering, but the drag link attaches to a bellcrank assembly that then converts to cross steering.
     
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  22. silent rick
    Joined: Nov 7, 2002
    Posts: 5,162

    silent rick
    Member

    does fake cowl steering equal fake bump steer?
     
  23. Like a strap-on.
     
  24. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,734

    Marty Strode
    Member

    That would have been really cool, if the drag link was on the LH side !
     
    427 sleeper and X38 like this.
  25. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 2,286

    twenty8
    Member

    That might be a little hard considering the steering wheel is on the right hand side......."Land down under". ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2023
  26. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,734

    Marty Strode
    Member

    I know ............
     
    427 sleeper, twenty8 and INVISIBLEKID like this.
  27. fourspd2quad
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 923

    fourspd2quad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very cool! A while back I sold a right side cast cowl steering blister to a dude in Oz. Your's looks primo with that Hemi.
     
  28. J. A. Miller
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 2,045

    J. A. Miller
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Central NY

    Spelled backwards is no-parts.:rolleyes:
     
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  29. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,126

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Spittle being cleaned off my shirt, thank you! :rolleyes:
     
    dwollam and 427 sleeper like this.
  30. Not mine, a friends. And believe it or not, it looks better with the hood on! It is a very nice car.
     

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