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Copper headgasket questions.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by metalshapes, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    Never had one in a engine before...

    So what do I have to expect?

    A big pain in the ass for a street driven vehicle?

    Leaking antifreeze all over the place?

    Do I run the chance of hydrolocking it, water in the oil, rust in the cylinders?

    Or are they pretty trouble free?

    I can get a upgraded headgasket for it ( a regular one, but multi layered for running it blown ), but I would like to try it as is first.

    To see how much boost its running at, etc...
     
  2. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 5,377

    indyjps
    Member

  3. mastergun1980
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 1,094

    mastergun1980
    Member
    from Alva OK

    Wish I could give you an awnser.... I'm kInda scared of them. I have the same concernes ....
     
  4. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    Kinda Off Topic...

    Its an Ak Miller turbocharged 2000cc Pinto ( Pangra ) engine, with some extra mods done to it.
     

  5. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,723

    George
    Member

    I would suggest spraying it, lay it flat so you don't get any runs.
     
  6. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Solid copper? If so anneal it dead soft if it isn't,spray with aluminum paint assemble with paint tacky.
     
  7. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    I knew a guy who would paint a headgasket with a couple of coats of rattlecan aluminum paint before assembling an engine, and put it together wet ( or at least still tacky )

    Is that what you mean?

    He said they were difficult to get back apart again...
     
  8. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    ^^^^^^^^^^ What he said, I use to use aluminum paint even on Chevrolet steel shim gaskets ,never had a problem with leaks with either copper or steel shim.
     
  9. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    Yeah, solid copper.

    The engine is assembled and running, I didnt take the head off.

    I have started it, but only for a couple of seconds.

    W/O any water in it...
     
  10. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    So is spraying it with aluminum paint common practice?

    Is this likely to have been done already?

    Does it make sense to try and run the engine as is, with a low pressure rad cap?

    Or should I take it apart?

    And if it is apart anyway, wouldnt it make more sense to put in a upgraded ( racing ) multi layer headgasket?

    ( they are really not that expensive, compaired to the work of putting one in...)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  11. saltracer219
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,071

    saltracer219
    Member

    We ran copper head gaskets on our blown Bonneville small block engines. We drained the water at the end of each day, they will seep. Not recommended for the street.
     
  12. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    I believe solid copper head gaskets were pretty common in marine engine conversions. So they might be superior to composite in sealing, especially when dealing with salt water. They can be reused after re annealing. I have seen them installed with a thin layer of all purpose grease on the block side and dry on the head side. I would thing the paint would interfere with the annealing process upon reinstallation.
     
  13. rld14
    Joined: Mar 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,609

    rld14
    Member

    I've never had issues with MLS head gaskets, I used to copper spray the snot out of them and I was fine.
     
  14. michev
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 96

    michev
    Member

    I've been running copper head gaskets in my Big Block Chevy street car since 2001 and all my race engines. All I have ever done anytime I have used them was use silicone around the water outlets. I also retorque the head the first time I warm the engine up after installing the gaskets. Never had a problem with leaking water.
     
  15. This is the stuff to use on copper head gaskets when running water/coolant.
    Silver paint worked,but this is the shit.
    Although the spray version will prob work fine,my dad used the can with the dauber in his Fuel Chryslers....they wont seep water if everythings flat,clean & dry.
    Follow the directions on the can.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. 5brown1
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 234

    5brown1
    Member

    I had a problem getting head gaskets (shim and composite) to seal on a studebaker 259 V8. I had used the Copper Coat on the shim gasket. The composite was installed dry. So I checked the service manual and they specified Perfect Seal for the head gaskets.
    I researched and found Perfect Seal #4 available from Air Craft Spruce for about $5. Applied with a mohair roller to both sides of a metal gasket and ended the problem.
     
  17. Gene Boul
    Joined: Feb 9, 2006
    Posts: 805

    Gene Boul

    Copper gaskets are generally found on Hi-po engines with "O" rings in the head or block / sleeve. A waste of time and money on a street / strip engine...in addition to being a real pain in the ass! Modern composite gaskets are more than adequate in most applications. As a side note we used them in all of our blown alcohol and injected nitro engines. We annealed them first and sprayed them with Copper Kote. One set could be used and re-used all year...unless!
     
  18. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,029

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    A coupla things -

    1. If Ak Miller built the engine (I knew him), and used copper gaskets, the block or head is most probably o-ringed. If the engine was assembled/built by someone else...who knows.

    2. Many use solid copper gaskets. But the "proper" way of using solid copper gaskets is with "o-rings" in the block (or head). This produces a high load on the gasket where the o-ring is and seals in/out everything else.
    If the block is o-ringed, the only other thing is to use some sealant (Copper Coat, Silicone) around the water passage holes.
    This should give you good sealing for most normal conditions.

    3. Also as mentioned, every three or four times the head is removed, the gasket should be annealed (sofened), as the clamping forces of the head bolts/studs actually hardens the copper gasket (actuall ALL metals to some extent !)

    Mike
     
  19. GassersGarage
    Joined: Jul 1, 2007
    Posts: 4,727

    GassersGarage
    Member

    I used copper coat on my copper head gaskets, but my block was o-ringed for running nitrous. The only seeping I got was from the head bolts, but after I broke the cam in, I let the engine cool, then re-torqued the heads and the seeping stopped.
     
  20. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    Cool...

    Thank you for all the info, guys.

    I think at this point, opening it up might do more harm than good.

    I have no idea if it is O-ringed or coated.

    But if it is, I wouldnt want to break the seal.

    So I'll just run it up to temp ( with a low pressure rad cap ), drain it, let it cool, and re-torque it.

    If it looks like its giving any sealing problems, I'll replace it with a good aftermarket headgasket.
     
  21. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 709

    Boryca
    Member
    from Detroit

    I use copper gaskets on an OT 429. no leaks. I used a little (very little) RTV and never had a problem. 13:1 compression. Street legal (not saying it's a daily, but it's driven every so often...)

    Mike
     
  22. Nelsen Motorsports
    Joined: Nov 14, 2009
    Posts: 67

    Nelsen Motorsports
    Member

    I run a copper layered gasket on a stovebolt, daily driven, and it has had no problems since I slipped it on last year.
     
  23. afaulk
    Joined: Jul 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,194

    afaulk
    Member

    If it's O-ringed you should have good results. One plus is not having to buy new ones for a long time. I've run them for many years. Seal around water passages, and spray with copper coat or metallic paint and re-install. Never "re-anealled" any, just put them back in their previous locations and run 'em. Titan also offers them with a wire ring.
     
  24. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,530

    aaggie
    Member

    In the old days we used the copper gaskets on flatheads and the beauty was we could use them over and over. Just clean off any residue then heat them with a torch to anneal (soften) them up and put them back on. I am also a big fan of the K&W Coppercoat gasket sealer, it works.

    We ran a 392 blown Hemi in a fuel dragster in the '60s and the head gaskets always got sprayed with aluminum spray paint before they were used. The blocks were "O" ringed and solid filled, water only in the heads.
     
  25. My '65 442 had them I believe from the factory. When I tore it down the gaskets had rusted away to the point that coolant was in the holes.
     

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