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Customs Cooling fan type, mechanical or electric?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Karl M, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,526

    sdluck
    Member

    Does the timing change with vacuum,you never answered what the timing was at at Idle and at rpm.Most people cannot read sparkplugs they do not color with todays fuel
     
  2. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,526

    sdluck
    Member

    Performance cam means it need more initial timing.
     
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  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,907

    squirrel
    Member

    It's getting a little warm in traffic because the fan is only pulling air through a small part of the radiator, is my guess.
     
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  4. Those Willys wagons and pickups seem to be prone to heating issues when a V8 is installed as you are limited in the size of radiator that will fit in the available space. I had one with a sbf that did the same thing. I tried various fans, both electric and mechanical; fan shrouds; 4-row core radiator and etc. Tried using manifold vacuum on the vacuum advance which made no change... I finally gave up and installed an oil cooler which gave me a little piece of mind when the water temp. was at 230-240 on a long uphill climb.
     
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  5. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 649

    Mimilan
    Member


    You can make neat looking fan shrouds out of a couple of oven roasting trays [dish]
    Most of the shroud is cut out for the fan anyway.
    You want the fan to be no more than 1" from the radiator . And have a shroud so the fan is 2/3rds inside and 1/3 outside of the shroud.
     
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  6. 48ford
    Joined: Dec 15, 2001
    Posts: 436

    48ford
    Member

    Do they still make a water pump riser kit.?
    Then maybe a larger fan,and shroud
     
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  7. Canuck
    Joined: Jan 4, 2002
    Posts: 1,049

    Canuck
    Member

    My suggestion, based on similar problems in the past:
    1> As suggested space the fan closer to the rad by 3/4 - 1", depending on fan design
    2> Trash the flex fan and replace with a hi-volume fan like this: upload_2020-6-11_11-31-5.png
    Not that expensive and never break down. If you can't swing 15" each blade could be cut down evenly to fit. ( MoPars with AC had a similar fan, maybe too big, upload_2020-6-11_11-40-46.png
    3> Get a shroud. As suggested metal ones can be fabricated or fiberglass can be molded, numerous how-to atricles on the net.

    These solutions have worked for me on a 47 Chevy with a 454, 30 Model A (full hood) with a 425 Buick (never did get around to making the shroud, didn't need it) and a 64 Malibu with a 406 SBC
     
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  8. proartguy
    Joined: Apr 13, 2009
    Posts: 454

    proartguy
    Member
    from Sparks, NV

    A shroud would be a big help because the current setup is not pulling much airflow on the upper radiator, where the hottest water is. Low speed heating is usually an air flow problem. Timing too far retarded will also cause low speed heating.
     
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  9. error404
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 279

    error404
    Member
    from CA

    with a decent fan and a properly fitting shroud, if it's still having overheating issues, the problem is probably not the fan. Or at least not entirely the fan.
     
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  10. Karl M
    Joined: Jul 19, 2017
    Posts: 119

    Karl M

    The flex fan is 14.25 inches and no room to spare towards the bottom near the cross member on the frame. Maybe that why the flex fan. I have heard bad reviews on flex fans, what is their down fall...?
     
  11. Karl M
    Joined: Jul 19, 2017
    Posts: 119

    Karl M

    Working on a shroud today.
     
    46international likes this.
  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,907

    squirrel
    Member

    The type of flex fan you have is fine. There are really crappy ones that have badly shaped blades, some that come apart, etc. Some guys just say all flex fans are bad, because some of them are bad.
     
  13. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,979

    sunbeam
    Member

    I guess I missed seeing electric cooling fans in the early 60s most cars didn't have enough generating power to support one
     
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  14. Canuck
    Joined: Jan 4, 2002
    Posts: 1,049

    Canuck
    Member

    It looks like your crossmember slopes down as it goes back. If you put in a shorter fan spacer and made a longer shroud could you swing a bigger fan?

    I'll stick with my comments on flex fans. Put one like yours in a Ranchero, suppose to be HD High Volume one, when I added air, worked OK, did I really need it, will never know. Sold Ranchero but kept the fan. When I put a new 406 in my Malibu re-used the fan. Engine was just in and barely complete and running and family reminded me I had promised dinner out. Hopped in the Malibu and made it about 3 miles before the fan flexed, lost a blade and ate the rad core. Solid fans in my cars ever since.

    Ran a fan like the silver one in my Model A, running a 425 Nailhead, full hood. plan was to add a fan shroud as well. Got a good offer before I got one made. With a 180 thermostat car ran a constant 180 regardless of temperature or traffic. Well not real hot out, just in the mid 90s, but pretty hot for this country.
     
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  15. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,551

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've got one of those what I call Ricky Racer fans on my 48 because there isn't clearance for anything else and just like that Jeep wagon my fan is way way low on the radiator. The vendors call them performance fans but no matter what the name, they don't pull any air. That is one in the photo below. No good for moving air at an idle or low speeds.
    Looking at the photos of the fan in the jeep a 6 blade fan that actually pulls some air Like the one Canuk showed in post 37 will pull a lot more air but you still need the shroud so it can pull air though the whole radiator.

    flex fan.jpg
    From personal experience this style of fan does not pull enough air at low speeds to write home about. It's claim to fame is that it doesn't much drag on an engine at high speed. Not what one wants for driving in traffic, My 48 would hit 220+ at a light and drop back below 200 when you hit 25/30 going down the street.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
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  16. A shroud would make a world of difference on that set up for sure!

    I just did one and a quickie thread on it. I had some really off center difference between radiator and fan and practically no time to get it done and on the track. Fan perimeter was 4” above the top of radiator and a few inches to the side of center. The shroud is up into the cowl hood scoop!

    Search “1,2,3 fan shroud” for it

    Water pump riser might work better too allowing a bigger fan if it doesn’t go too high. It raises 5”. ACDDA48E-AC2D-4A20-94BD-DB46A20F8342.jpeg

    Both a shroud and a riser with bigger fan !
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  17. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 1,316

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    Looks like you could fit a nice clutch fan in there.. Electrics are only good when you cant fit the traditional fan.. My opinion is the clutch fan is the best set up.. You can set the bi-metal so it free wheels most of the time..

    I have never ran stock timing specs on anything. They leave a lot to be desired. Most time I can run 18-20 initial without any issues. Some motors don't like vacuum advance some do.. When I rarely use a vacuum advance, I prefer ported so my idle rpm isn't vacuum dependent..

    My favorite ignition is a stock single points distributor triggering a CD box.. Since I don't use a vacuum advance I bolt down the points plate to keep everything running nice a smooth. When I first saw the advantage of doing this on a distributor machine, in my teens (1970s) I was amazed!

    There are many different way around this mine isn't the only.. A lot of guys get those vacuum advances running real good..
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
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  18. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 1,316

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    For some reason people forget this part. An electric fan makes that alternator work hard which makes the motor work harder.. Electric isn't for free just because you cant see it! Think of a big magnet going against the rotation of your engine and holding it back, that's whats happening.. The mechanical is right on the pulley with a torque converter making the actual drag very soft and light, when you hit the gas it slips and disconnects from the engine, the alternator never does this and actually drags a little more as the rpm go up..
     
  19. AldeanFan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 613

    AldeanFan

    Without a shroud, and the fan that far from the rad, the fan can pull air that doesn’t even go through the rad.
    A simple shroud will make a huge difference.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  20. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,885

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    And being so far from the radiator it's not doing a great job at that either.
     
  21. I had the same issue on my avatar; flex fan and no shroud. It would tend to want to heat up in parades or traffic, although my biggest complaint was how noisy the flex fan was. These move a lot of air at slow speeds, my car sounded like school bus when pulling away at a light with a bit of throttle applied.

    I did a clutch fan and a shroud. Noise is gone, and temps stay a lot more stable now. If you've got room for the clutch (and it looks like you do, but measure carefully) I'd recommend one. One other issue is I couldn't find a clutch fan smaller than 16", I trimmed about 5/8" off each blade to make it fit. It's been in there a year now, I'm happy...
     
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  22. Karl M
    Joined: Jul 19, 2017
    Posts: 119

    Karl M

    Here is what I put together. I have not refined it as yet. Tried it out on a long hill, about 65 miles per hour. It stayed at 190 degrees. Drove it across town in stop and go traffic and it crept up to 230 degrees, got nervous and flipped on the push fan and dropped it to 220 degrees. I bailed out and went home checked it with a infrared thermometer and readings were the same. 95 degrees outside today. Did not have this issue till temps went up. The fan pulley is 7 inches and the crank pulley is 7 inches.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,907

    squirrel
    Member

    I doubt the band is helping it. But the shroud is the cleverest one I've ever seen!

    Might need to just get a big ass electric puller fan on the back of the radiator...
     
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  24. Karl M
    Joined: Jul 19, 2017
    Posts: 119

    Karl M

    Yep wanted to try something simple first. Trash can lid fit perfect, angle lined up with the angle of the fan... What do yo think about a 5 inch pulley...?
     
  25. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,225

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    I'd swap out that flex fan for an OEM style 6 blade fan so it draws more air. Insofar as a pusher fan causing issues I've had one (1600cfm Spal) on my 35 Chevy for 15yrs+ with only minor issue (Loose grub screw on blade). The fan only comes on at low speed and when it reaches a preset temperature as in stop start traffic. I use the OEM SBC water pump with no mechanical fan or shroud.
    If you go with a shroud cover the entire core so air is drawn through evenly and doesn't bypass it through gaps. Also on the front you want air channeled into and through the radiator, you'll loose air around any gaps, that's why I run a chin panel which directs air rather than it being lost.
     
  26. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,526

    sdluck
    Member

    Try speeding the water pump Serpentine belts crank pulleys crank pulleys are way bigger.
     
  27. You’ve got plenty of room for a water pump riser. 80CDFF10-9E5A-4140-B10C-38165E60B0A8.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

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  28. PotvinV8
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 58

    PotvinV8
    Member

    That's pretty low. Check the specs for your radiator, but you might be able to increase the pressure to 16lbs or so. Remember the boiling point of the water increases three degrees for every 1 psi the pressure goes up, increasing the cap from 7 to 16 lbs would increase the boiling point by 27 degrees.

    I would ignore your gauge for now and watch the overflow. Your car will tell you what it likes. If it's puking coolant all over the place, that's one thing. If the temp comes up at an idle situation and then goes back down once you're moving without steaming or spitting a bunch of coolant out, that's not really cause for alarm.

    Solution number one: get a decent shroud on the radiator and remove the pusher fan. GM built a few cars with small block engines that managed to not overheat with a mechanical fan.

    Solution number two: get a decent shroud and bury a good (Spal) puller electric fan inside it and set it up on a thermostatic switch.
     
  29. Canuck
    Joined: Jan 4, 2002
    Posts: 1,049

    Canuck
    Member

    Fiberglass shroud in my Malibu, approx 1" deep covering full core with a raised lip around the fan. Fan is 6 blade fixed mounted about 1/2 into the shroud. pulleys are 6 7/8 crank and 7" on waterpump. Cap is 13 lb. Thermostat is 160 degree. Only thing slowing down the air flow is a trans cooler in front of the rad. Rad core is a triple core, high efficiency core with stock tanks. This scar use to struggle with running hot on the highway, now it is the opposite, I may have to change the thermostat to higher one, runs around 170 on the highway.

    upload_2020-6-13_2-3-42.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  30. Scumdog
    Joined: Mar 3, 2010
    Posts: 621

    Scumdog
    Member

    Just be aware that a higher pressure cap doesn't make the engine run any cooler - it just means the motor can run hotter before it boils.

    And puts more load on your hoses, hose clips etc.

    But still worth a shot.
     
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