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Projects continental star speedster build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Burkedore, Mar 19, 2016.

  1. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 23,077

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No hijack just sharing questions and sharing knowledge and enjoying the build=good good

    Burke looks like you'll be shooting and bucking too...
     
  2. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 23,077

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You can put a layer or two of masking tape on the snap for dome/head side and it may prevent that...and you must rigidly hold the squeezer when squeezing at 90 degrees to the rivet...Meaning don't let the tool move angularly when squeezing or the snap will contact the sheet and it doesn't take much angle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  3. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 23,077

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are you using "A"(soft) rivets. "AD" rivets are very hard rivets and if your aluminum is soft that would be a problem. I am pretty sure you probably have soft sheet and soft rivets which would be what is best for what your doing.
     
  4. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    You have just uncovered another reason I did a test panel. This is my first project using solid rivets and I am not very confident in my squeezer technique. Thanks for the tips. As for the type of rivet, I have no clue what I got. They came from McMasterCarr. I will look at the box tomorrow.

    As for the aluminum, it's 5052.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
    Stogy likes this.
  5. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    I don't really think of it as a hijack, I am just glad someone has joined in the discussion.
     
    Stogy likes this.
  6. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 4,163

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I made this for a similar project. It mimics a Whippet grill with a five inch chop. I decided to go a different direction so it is available.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 23,077

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you put a hard rivet in soft sheet it will stretch out the hole you put in the aluminum and really not work well. Soft rivets are for non structural low stress areas and i think your seat falls into that category. Soft aluminum sheet is very workable and bends without breaking.

    This is my glovebox for the hotrod...Soft sheet and soft 'A' rivets...the sheet is strong but very easy to work and the rivets work well with it. Several types of riveting are employed here Dome head Buck/Squeeze rivets...Dome Hd Pop/Cherry type rivets where you cannot access with hand squeezer. there is other types of riveting done as well due to limited access.

    Note in the clecoed pic how many are used...they are essential in process to hold things together and aligned. If the parts separate while you squeeze, the rivet expands between the members(2 parts) and it will not perform well, look bad and things will hold as well. You can use a combination of clecoes and clamps as well...I will try to find out what my sheet was but I know the rivets are 'A' type...sorry long winded but essential tidbits...and its fun for mechanically minded Hotrodheads like ourselves;)

    Burke its not rocket science but the key features make for a good outcome...

    Rear_angle_pre_rivet_sm.jpg



    Top_view_sm.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  8. brasscarguy
    Joined: Jun 12, 2010
    Posts: 184

    brasscarguy
    Member
    from seattle

    The honeycomb radiator you pictured is French origin from a Voisin late 20's thru mid 30's. I have one for a speedster project I have in the planning stage. The shell is very solid and made from German Silver. The rather large radiator is a 2 man piece.

    just sayin'

    brasscarguy
     
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  9. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    Thanks for all the good information. That's a sharp looking glovebox. The fiber glovebox in my 66 dodge decomposed long before I got it, I think I am going to try your approach for a replacement.
     
    Stogy likes this.
  10. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 23,077

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thank you...I might have done a thread on it...I will have a look. I have understanding of composition of metals but drill holes and rivet quite extensively. I share my knowledge here gladly as so many do with they're expertise. I have a 36 ford dash in the Hotrod and made this as opposed to a repro fibre...why because the car has an aviation theme going and I thought it would be fun and compliment it.

    So Burke and anyone else enjoying this thread here is some relevant info on riveting...
    there are other threads with good info just search under riveting etc.

    Remember 'A' type rivets are good for non high stress applications such as the seat interior panels door panels, my custom coupe aviation style roof ...not for holding stuff to the frame like running board brackets, heavy items etc. (very important)

    This is a technical explanation of the rivets;

    "A" rivets are "soft". They are fabricated from 1100-grade aluminum and have a tensile strength of 16,000 PSI. "AD" rivets are fabricated from 2117 aluminum and heat treated to the T4 condition. They have a shear strength of 26,000 PSI and a tensile strength of 38,000 PSI.

    Here is a really good bit of info;

    Additionally, two types of material are available within these designations. The first type is made out of pure aluminum and has a low tensile strength (usually 16,000 psi). These rivets are used for softer aluminum alloys such as 3003 or 5052 where strength is not a consideration. They use an "A" as identification and are termed soft. In other words, MS20470A. Structural rivets use 2117 aluminum alloy and are heat treated for strength. They typically have a tensile strength of 38,000 psi. They are also highly resistant to corrosion and use the letters "AD" as an identifier (MS20470AD). AD rivets should be used for all structural applications. What if I pick up a rivet—how can I tell if it is soft or hard? Soft or "A" rivets have no markings at all on their head. In comparison, structural or "AD" rivets have a dimple on the head. If you do not see a dimple do not use the rivet for structural purposes. This dimple is also used as an aid to drill out defective or improperly installed rivets.
    http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...ion/aircraft-hardware-what-you-need-to-know-2

    Burke these are 'A' rivets (soft) the MS20470A-4-16
    A
    =hardness, 4=4/32"(1/8"dia.), 16=16/16"(1"long)
    [​IMG]

    The Glove Box Post and a really cool thread on Riveting;

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/incredible-rivets.369366/page-4#post-11265946

    A Thread on a type of riveting...with some relevance here...

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...r-holeless-installation.994109/#post-11270534

    Any questions I will do my best to explain...have fun riveting your projects.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
    BradinNC likes this.
  11. rmcroadster
    Joined: Sep 28, 2014
    Posts: 26

    rmcroadster
    Member

    The best material for friction shock absorbers is one that has an equal static and dynamic co-efficient of friction. The original type Andre Hartford used lignum vitae. Which had a higher static friction than dynamic so was easier to move once it started to move. I find brake lining works pretty well.
    The Complete Automobilist in the UK stocks Andre Hartford shocks and parts.

    A recommended modification for Austin Sevens is to modify the shock absorber mounting or links so that the shock/s is then no longer restricting the suspension movement or trying to pivot it.

    With such a spindly crankshaft I would not put more than a couple or three psi into the engine with supercharging.

    Matthew
     
  12. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    Thanks for the suggestion of lignum vitae, I would not have thought of using wood at all. I suppose with its natural oilyness it would be a great choice. I am planning on attaching the moving end of the shock/damper using Ford shock dog bones to allow plenty of freedom.

    I won't be supercharging the engine with the stock crank. I really don't want to say more until I get a little farther along with my plans, just know I have a plan for that.
     
  13. you can still get honeycomb radiators..Very expensive however,,,,We replaced a damaged one on a 1917 Packard,,,around $1,000.00....plus shipping from England
     
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  14. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 23,077

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Burke
    ...I drafted this up for you and anyone else who is interested to aid in the understanding the art of riveting...

    Squeezer_Riveting-basics1.jpg

    One other item about the squeezer type riveting is the sets can be reversed depending on access.
    Just a side note to all interested in riveting and wrenching...Aviation has had a long connection to Customizing and Hotrodding and Aircraft Spruce has a great catalog with great info and stuff to aid in your project...I bought rivets and things for my Hotrod there
    and I highly recommend you get a free catalog and check it out
    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php

    I am not affiliated with them at all just was very happy with the service, items and catalog.

    Regards,
    Stogy​
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
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  15. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    IMG_20170103_205610444.jpg

    I'm only three panels in and already I feel more like I am putting together a grain bin than a speedster seat.
     
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  16. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 30,822

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Interesting bit there. I figured that you had to use a rivet driver and a bucking bar to do the job right.
     
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  17. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 23,077

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    48 as a structural mechanic riveting can be achieved using a large array of tooling from pneumatic squeezers with same sets as hand squeezer Burke is using, rivet gun and bars, stationary fixed pneumatic with same sets as hand squeezer to cherry/pop rivets. They even have stationary hand squeezers. It usually works out that having all available is best as situation and access dictate what to use. All methods have limitations and cost is a big one. One of the other biggest limitations is reach...the squeezer Burke is using can only reach in 2-2.5" as in throat. Long winded but if we are to know we have to talk and experience.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
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  18. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    After deciding I didn't like the seat I put it on the back burner and started work on something else.

    How to make a front crossmember (alternatively titled; how to ruin perfectly good steel)
    IMG_20170130_175407290.jpg
    Make lots of marks

    IMG_20170130_185656309.jpg

    Break three band saw blades while you try to cut on the line.

    IMG_20170130_201301790.jpg

    Be sure not to knock the thing off the table cutting your hand and smashing your foot.

    IMG_20170130_211353815.jpg

    Grind a little and test fit. I have no idea why I put the two little pieces of tubing there, but I tapped them for 3/8-16 so if I need them I am ready.
     
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  19. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    In other news, I got most of a fat man wheel I plan to fix and use on the speedster.
    IMG_20170128_155244457.jpg
     
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  20. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    After remaking the front cross member because it wasn't quite symmetrical I turned my attention to the front suspension. IMG_20170412_163338383.jpg

    IMG_20170413_180422475.jpg

    IMG_20170413_203337436.jpg

    IMG_20170418_185807.jpg

    IMG_20170420_204722661.jpg

    IMG_20170428_193706867.jpg

    IMG_20170428_193948807.jpg

    I still have a little machine work to do to finish the lower dog bones to accept the spherical bearings. I made the front axle to use 29 model a spindles and mechanical brakes so the next task is to make some brackets to hold the brake arms to the axle. More on this story as it develops.
     
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  21. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    IMG_20170423_192323628.jpg

    Here is a view of the second cross member and front axle I forgot in the last post.
     
  22. chriseakin
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 382

    chriseakin
    Member

    What is the axle made of? Looks like it should be fairly light.
     
  23. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    It's .188 wall 1-5/8 4130 tube. The ends we're machined from 4130 rod. It's quite stout. I am hoping for a finished weight of about 1k lbs so it should be stronger than I ever need.
     
  24. Double WOW! You do really nice work and have a cool vision here. I'll be following.

    PS - that steering wheel is going to be cool in this, too!
     
  25. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    Thanks. Here is a picture of the steering wheel progress. I made one new arm. I have to finish the second arm and do a whole lot of filing still.

    IMG_20170409_141800410.jpg
     
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  26. J. A. Miller
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 1,771

    J. A. Miller
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Central NY

    I'm glad this thread showed back up on my radar! I can see you have been busy - incredible work!
     
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  27. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    IMG_20170430_184820152.jpg

    A full day of weld, grind, sand, and polish. I took all the forging seams and centering bosses off the spindle arms. They will get a trip through the sandblaster tomorrow at work then I will replace all the tie rod balls.

    I also discovered my spindles both have one bearing surface that has been ruined by a spun bearing so I guess I will be looking for a replacement set.
     
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  28. Burkedore
    Joined: Nov 9, 2013
    Posts: 146

    Burkedore
    Member

    Work has kept me pretty busy so no great progress on the speedster. I did manage the time to put a steering box on a diet. It will be sort of the opposite of cowl steering. I want the box to mount just under the frame with the pitman arm pointing up.

    I cut the mounting ears off of a cross steer box from an unlikely source. Because the box is cast iron I don't want to weld a mounting flange to it so I will make a clamp collar with some sort of anti rotation feature (keyway, pin, cross bolt, not sure yet).

    IMG_20170527_182215608.jpg

    IMG_20170527_182200631.jpg
     
  29. Interested in your steering solution. Will you eventually tell us where the box came from?
     

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