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Concrete shop floor coating

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by firehawgcfd, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. firehawgcfd
    Joined: Sep 13, 2009
    Posts: 40

    firehawgcfd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am looking at a floor coating product that is marketed by a company called national coatings. The name of the product is SURFACE MASTER PROTECTIVE COATING. It is a single stage product versus a two stage epoxy. Their claim is that the product is far more durable than epoxy, chemical resistant, non-slip,as well as many other fabulous things. The rep that I spoke with even said it will hold up to sparks and falling slag from welding.
    It is priced reasonably, they have a special going right now where you can buy 5 gallons and receive another gallon for free. The price quoted for that package was $499. I am wanting to coat an area that is 1800 sq ft. and the rep says 5 gallons will do it.
    I am wondering if anyone on the H.A.M.B. has used this product or knows someone that has and if you have been happy with the product.
    Thanks in advance for any advice.


    The web site for the product is www.thesurfacemaster.com
     
  2. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,595

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I have not used their products and the may well make a good product for the purpose.

    I would however not do business with them since they have lied to you.

    It does not say anywhere on their website that their coatings will stand up to industrial use for instance in a Welding shop. The do not say on the website that their coatings will withstand falling sparks and slag because that is not true.

    The rep has told you a bald faced lie and as such has no integrity at all.

    You can be sure that their coatings will not take sparks and hot slag without damage, no floor coating is capable of that. No way.
     
  3. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,547

    ems customer service
    Member

    i think they are a scam outfit just selling some regular floor coating, they only have a 1-800 number, no mailing address, no phyiscal address, no name to contact just fill out a email and we will call you back.

    and right away they put the "bbb"logo out front.

    i would not do biz with these guys

    we get over hyped product sale stuff all the time they are just looking for sucker to buy over over priced stuff you can buy a home depot

    forget them
     
  4. Hogger
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 73

    Hogger
    Member
    from Carvel AB

    WeldBond glue and water work for me see their website for correct mixing numbers. Coating looks great and is non slip.

    John
     
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  5. 39 Ford
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,558

    39 Ford
    Member

    Any "paint job" on a shop floor with make it skick if you spill antifreeze etc on it. Also it will wear in high traffic area's. On new concrete I would just apply clear sealer,such as Thomsons or Olympic, let the floor age naturally.
     
  6. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,549

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

  7. Special Ed
    Joined: Nov 1, 2007
    Posts: 5,225

    Special Ed
    Member


    Now you're an expert on coatings, huh? :rolleyes:

    Of course there are floorcoverings that are capable of that. I spent thirty-five years on my knees applying them. I can't speak for or against this company's claims, as I'm not familiar with them, but why not ask the company for some referrals so you can check on your own? :)
     
  8. firehawgcfd
    Joined: Sep 13, 2009
    Posts: 40

    firehawgcfd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks to everyone for the useful information. I am going to do some more investigating prior to making any purchases. I will definitely check out the posts on the garage journal as well as looking at other products that were mentioned.
     
  9. firehawgcfd
    Joined: Sep 13, 2009
    Posts: 40

    firehawgcfd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hogger,
    I had never heard of using weld bond glue and water to seal a floor. I just looked on their web site and the mix ratio is 1 part glue to 5 parts water. Has it proved to be fairly durable for you or do you have to reapply periodically?
     
  10. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,824

    noboD
    Member

    It's JUST an opinion, but I would never put a colored coating on a concrete floor. I've never seen one yet that doesn't cratch through, or wear through. A clear one at least won't look as bad. My concrete guy used the normal sealer when my floor was new two years ago. Gasoline takes it right off in a gooie mess. I too will be looking into the weld glue.
     
  11. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,549

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    I've had epoxy floor coatings that held up in high traffic, welding, spilled gas, other solvents. I've also had some that didn't. Most of the work is in the prep before application. And using a quality product. I see that you did check out the garagejournal. You'll have much better luck over there and not so many naysayers.
     
  12. Fedcospeed
    Joined: Aug 17, 2008
    Posts: 2,011

    Fedcospeed
    Member

    The only opinion that counts for me right now is this: Make sure you have non-slip texture.Tuesday i needed to move my 47 Olds back a few feet in the garage.Its on dollies.Couldnt push it so I went around the back.Grabbed the two bumper guards and gave a tug.Shoes were wet from snow still and in a split sec. was flat on my ass and seeing stars.Iam convinced I broke my tailbone and cant sit or really sleep well.The smooth surface cleans up real good and i got a handle on dust but should of maybe mixed some sand in with it before rolling down.Dont be this guy.
    I did get a good look at the underneath of the car while I layed there and wondered if i should move.Havent seen the car from this angle since it went to storage 25 years ago.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  13. Special Ed
    Joined: Nov 1, 2007
    Posts: 5,225

    Special Ed
    Member


    Exactly....
    Not only is the surface prep ultra-critical, but a vapor barrier UNDERNEATH the slab is also critical. Water vapor emission is what causes most failures... :)
     
  14. customrod48
    Joined: Oct 10, 2010
    Posts: 201

    customrod48
    Member

    another question to ask is "can this covering be touched up or re-coated after use,". Many coatings are a "one and done" meaning once you apply it, you can't remove or recoat it, or cover it with anything else in case you need to fix any wear problems later.
     
  15. firehawgcfd
    Joined: Sep 13, 2009
    Posts: 40

    firehawgcfd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Customrod48,
    Per the rep this product should never need to be re-coated. He also states that it can be applied in sections at different times with no visible seam where you stop coating one area and lap over it when starting the next section, with no time limit in between sections, could be days later. He made all kinds of claims that just seem to good to be true. If this stuff is that fantastic I believe it would have been discovered by someone on this board long ago and everyone would be using it. Most of the time if it sounds to good to be true it probably is. I have a direct # to the rep and I am going to call him back and pin him down on some of the issues brought up by people that have posted so far. I will keep you all posted on what I find out.
     
  16. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,198

    73RR
    Member

  17. 32v
    Joined: May 20, 2007
    Posts: 911

    32v
    Member
    from v.i.

    have you ever spilled fence stain on concrete...... it soaks right in and you can't get it off
     
  18. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,071

    oj
    Member

    What ate my floor coatings up is brake fluid. I worked my ass off prepping the floors, scrubbing with acid etcetc, i did it in 4 sections about 6-800sqft per section and it took two hard days per section of preparation. The first time i did gravity bleed on brakes the coatings just lifted right up all bubbly etc. If i ever do it again they will be clear like the previous guys are talking about. The good thing about color (light gray) is that it reflects the light and when you go to natuaral concrete it'll absorb light and having a well-lit shop is very important.
    Ask about brake fluid and pin him down on what he'll do when it bubbles up, it is a ton of work to follow instructions and applying the stuff so get it in writing (he is a salesman and they have a dominant lying gene).
     
  19. firehawgcfd
    Joined: Sep 13, 2009
    Posts: 40

    firehawgcfd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    73RR,
    The SEAL HARD product that you referenced above looks really interesting. I am going to look into that more closely as well as researching all my options. Thanks to everyone for the great comments. Gives me plenty of issues to ask questions about to any coating manufacturer.
     
  20. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,198

    73RR
    Member


    I think I might have some left over from my shop. If so, I could send a small sample for you to play with...

    .
     
  21. bangngears
    Joined: Aug 30, 2007
    Posts: 832

    bangngears
    Member
    from ofallon mo

    Check with your local Sherwin-Williams paint store.I used there epoxy on my floor and it is bullet proof.
     
  22. firehawgcfd
    Joined: Sep 13, 2009
    Posts: 40

    firehawgcfd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    73RR,
    That would be really nice of you. I would of course pay the postage as well as a little extra for the sample if you like. I will PM you with my address. thanks!!
     
  23. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,674

    bobscogin
    Member

  24. RAG66
    Joined: Jun 1, 2008
    Posts: 160

    RAG66
    Member
    from WASHINGTON

    Before you do anything check on the concrete polishing process. By the time you do the preperation and application of coatings of whatevere type the price can be compareable. I'm having my new garage done. I have looked at many coatings and none are rated for welding, they all discolor! The issue of "holding up" is subjective; it may not crack, blister, or peel but it will burn and look like poop! The price for true industrial coatings is also an issue. I have had 3 bids on my job and the price is compareable to true industrial coatings and the bare polished concrete will not burn. So the question is "Do you work in your shop?" The surface is not slick like you might think... Do a search for polished concrete you might be surprised.
     
  25. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    - Not likely that a one stage product is going to be more chemical resistant than a two-part epoxy or polyurethane.

    -All floor paints are some form of plastic. Plastic can't tolerate the heat of glowing red metal slag.

    If looks are the priority, painting makes sense. Working on painted floor I don't care for. They are easily damaged when dragging something; they don't tolerate high heat; they are slippery when oily or wet; anti-slip additives reduce the floors durability; spills of paint, layout dye, and some solvents will damage or deface even an epoxy floor, adhesion/chipping/flaking can be a problem; high traffic/wear areas require periodic recoating; vertigated finishes and some colors make it nearly impossible to find small dropped items.

    Most clear sealers are acrylic. That has all the drawbacks previously noted, oily more so.

    The big time race shops you see with perfect coated floors are continuously repaired to keep them looking good!!

    I have done two floors with a thin application of clear penetrating sealer. There are several types. I suggest you check out silicate and silicate blends. It is used for commercial applications. Rather than just laying on the surface it chemically combines with the concrete. For a workshop I think this is the best compromise between bare concrete and paint/acrylic.
     
  26. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,701

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    The only way to do a floor is the HARD WAY. Lots of scrubbing and etching, or the costly shot blast process to get the floor ready to soak up the color. Once prepped and dry (moisture is the biggest enemy as mentioned above), the floor should be coated twice. Yes, I meant 2 times. The 1st coat should be reduced a bit so it "stains" the concrete, and within 24-36hrs, the 2nd "pretty" coat. Plastic or silica beads should be mixed in so you don't have what happened to fecospeed happen to you. Bright semi gloss colors reflect light like you wouldn't believe. The only reliable material, after decades of doing and having coated floors, is 2 part epoxy...PERIOD. Prolonged exposure to brake fluid will screw up anything no matter what the manufacturer claims, but epoxy will give you a few minutes to clean it up before it totally blisters. Warm soapy water removes and almost neutralizes brake fluid.

    With a floor done as I mentioned, sparks will leave tan burn marks, prolonged abrasives like mud and dirt will scuff it and make it dirty looking, and most solvents won't touch it. If you can get it to soak deep enough, even all but the biggest chips will remain invisible. It's hard work, it's expensive, it's going to tie up your work area for over a week. If your concrete has oil stains, the best and most effective removal technique is good old-fashioned mineral spirits and sawdust. Soak the stain and scrub it really good with a stiff bristle brush or broom, soak it again, then throw at least a full 1/2" of more of sawdust on the wet solvent. Give it 15min give or take a few, then sweep it up and let it dry. Oil stain gone. Remember, the used sawdust will be flammable! Like any solvent use, just be careful. I guess if you want to make an omlette you gotta break some eggs.
     
  27. 48SuperConvert
    Joined: Jan 17, 2011
    Posts: 107

    48SuperConvert
    Member
    from Seattle

    There have been a lot of good points brought up so far. I hope you don't mind if I add my 2 cents worth too.
    When you speak to the rep ask him if the product is 100% solids and what the mil thickness is when dry. Many products will have a water or solvent base in them that evaporates or flashes off when drying. The better products end up with a thickness of a business card or thicker when finished.
    These products are more toward the 100% solids so the coating is much stronger and will stand up to all those nasty things.
    Most one part products tend to be a water based product and don't wear as well as two part products.
    Smell when applying is also concern, respirators are mandatory or you will get sick...read a copy of the MSDS sheet before buying any product.
    Preparation is key to the product staying down. The concrete must be somewhat aged (several months) so it is not out gassing (curing) or the coating will pop right off. The surface must be free of all oils, paints or other contaminates. Mechanical remove (sand, grind or shot blast) these items or use an muriatic acid wash (nasty stuff but effective) and make sure the floor is dry.
    Sorry for my ramblings and good luck with your floor !!
     
  28. 32v
    Joined: May 20, 2007
    Posts: 911

    32v
    Member
    from v.i.

    remember if you do etch the concrete (clean it) take any thing that is metal out or it will all rust over night
     
  29. firehawgcfd
    Joined: Sep 13, 2009
    Posts: 40

    firehawgcfd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Great insight from all of you. I do work in my shop, welding, grinding, plasma cutting etc. and probably would be better off with a clear penetrating sealer verses a painted coating. I like the idea of a bright colored coating to help reflect light and brighten up the work area but I have a feeling I would probably trash that type of finish in short order.
    Thanks for all the great comments. Keep them coming. The wealth of knowledge on this board never ceases to amaze me and the nice thing is that it usually comes from first hand experience not some information off of a web site or sales pitch from somebody.

    Thanks!!!
     
  30. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,476

    Jimbo17
    Member

    Well I will tell you what I have used for over 20 years on a concrete shop floor.

    I use a light gray stain and it usually looks great for about 3 or 4 years and then I simply apply another coat and it looks like brand new again.

    I have never had a problem with it being slippery or anything even like that.

    If you spill either gasoline or other harsh chemicals it will eat through it so yes you have to be careful. When this happens I open a gallon of stain and just stain the area again.

    The high traffic areas seem to hold up just fine.

    Remember I am talking about concrete stain and not concrete paint!!!!!!!!!!

    Just my two cents. Jimbo
     

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