Complete Body Surface Rust, best method to take to clean metal?

A little background, I searched all over and got a number of different answers so now I'm a little confused on the subject. I've never had to work with a completely bare metal but covered in surface rust car before. I want to prep it to start doing the body work and clear it off to bare metal while limiting the potential for warping the panels. What is the best method for doing so. I do have access to a sandblasting booth at work but I am unsure if I can set the pressure or what material to use. The more I read, the more the answered varied so any light on the subject of sandblasting bodies would be great. I also read others say just get a 3M wheel and go at it with a grinder, it's a bit more work but you may not be able to hit all the spots.

I am open to either possibility.


Here is a picture of the car as it sits, so you can see what I'm dealing with. It's a '29 Buick if that makes any difference in terms of metal thickness.

Also after I do clear it off, I may be setting the body aside for the winter while I work on the frame (hopefully not..but it's a possibility), I'm taking my best bet is to do a quick coat of por 15 so I don't have to repeat the process in the spring, and worse case I can use it for a guide coat if I am able to get to the body work this winter.

Thank you for your time.
-Brahm

 

Chemical dip would be the easiest and quickest route. Then a quality epoxy primer sprayed throughout. Or electrocoat with epoxy. Por 15 is crap! You can't stop rust with paint!

 

everyone Ive talked to says not to sand blast a body because it can cause enought heat to warp panels.

On my car I did it with a DA sander. (lots of work)

Is there somewhere near you that does chem dips?
It probalby wouldnt cost much for just the body.

After you have it down to bare metal you can wipe on some OSPHO or other rust inhibitor.


Good Luck

 

If you're looking for something you can do at home, try the strip it wheels on a grinder like you mentioned. They work really really well and I'd bet you could do that hole body with 4. If you want to leave it bare, wipe it down with Picklex 20. It dries and leaves a phosphate coating that will resist any rust for some time. Do not POR15 it whatever you do, that stuff is not meant for bodies.

But I digress, if you're not going to start on it until after the winter just leave it. The best way to resist rust is a nice healthy coating of, you guesed it, surface rust!

 

Have a sanding party in exchange for a place to "apres" then hit the slopes AFTER its done.

 

Although it will take some time for that body, surface rust can be removed using naval jelly and steel wool. The areas you cannot get to can be treated with a rust converter or one of the products that dissolves rust. Eastwoods has something.

Once you have an area worked, wash it with clear water then treat it with something that will inhibit the rust from returning. I use a product from Zero Rust called Prep Step. Works well in the Houston area.

 

if you cant get it dipped i would try to get it media blasted, not with sand but with walnut shells or even better get it dry ice blasted, dosent remove any material. good luck with whatever you do though.

 

I've had good luck (cheap) with the black 3M Stikit 6" strip pads and a slow speed buffer instead of a high speed grinder. No metal removal, no heat warpage. Then go back and hit the non-accessible and pitted areas with Black Beauty blast media.

I've also had three cars chemically dipped (Redi-Strip) but it was EXPENSIVE, and you have to worry about them not rinsing it right, and seepage at the seams later.

 

You're average home blasting setup doesn't move enough sand to warp panels.

I'd blast the shit out of it.

Rich

 

an aquantance had a T coupe bead blasted that looked worse that that. came back like swiss cheese. hopefully yours is more solid.

but blasting sure did get it all nice and pretty.

as stated. stay away from por15 on your body. also just wait until you are ready to get started befor getting it cleaned up whichever method you choose

 

Dip it into a mixture of 5:1 molasses and water.
Let it sit for about two weeks. Clean it up wih high pressure washer.Works fine.
Picked up up a door from a molasses bath today.
Sometimes it even removes the remaning stock paint.
It's a little messy, but W.T.F who cares if your not in a hurry and are lazy.

 

ii get the best results with media blasting using walnut shells.

gives it a teztured surface like bead, but without the possibility of warpage.

i stay awqay from chemical strippers as they can leave residue in the metal.

sand will warp it for sure.

plastic media will leave a smooth surface,with no added texture if that is what you area after.

sanding it yourself will work, but its tedious, and expensive when you foigure in your material costs, and it will never be as thourough as media.

skull

 

First, thank you call for the responses.

The body it's self seems very solid the metal is good, no cancer just surface rust.

Sadly I don't have a local shop that I'm aware of, that does chemical dips, so that isn't an option for me at this time.

In terms of blasting, the equipment I have access to is full industrial sand blasting setup we use up at the garage at work where they maintain all our snowcats, buses, lifts, loaders, heavy machinery and truck fleet.

I believe they use some sort of "black" gravel/sand but I'm not sure on the grit, so with that I will most likely need to just buy my own media. If I do go that route, the suggestions are Black Magic, Wallet, Dry Ice, what about plastic media? Dry Ice, for some reason sounds very expensive, and difficult to work with but I could be wrong?

In looking up these different options both black magic, and wallet there are different grits? What do you recommend, and do you have any suggestions as to where would be the best place to purchase, and approximate how much I would need?

In terms of elbow, and grinder or buffer. 3M pads seems like the way to go.

In terms of chemicals in house, I'm not sure this is a good route for me, I live in a duplex, and I'm luckily enough my neighbors don't cry to the landlord over me stinking up the unit (they live above my garage) with 2 stroke smoke from the snowmos. I'm a little leery to go with an industrial chemical route in my house.

After stripping, I'll use OSPHO, Prep Step, or Picklex 20, but not por15

The main reason I'd like to get this part out of the way is, I still need to do the finish welding all the chop, build the internal bracing, ect and do all the body work. If I need to use the blaster I will only have until the end of this month to do so, then "hobby nite" at the garage is done for the winter prep work and opening up the ski area. So it will leave me only with whatever I can do in my garage with my own personal tools (don't have much but hand tools at this time), until May.

49ratfink, and Slowandlow63 you do both make good points, maybe I should just spot grind what I need to fix, and take it in steps instead of blasting the entire body.

 

If there's any wood in the body and you decide to dip it remove the wood first. It will absorb the chemical and can be reactivated with moisture. My coupe was dipped in the '70s and all the chemicals weren't neutralized plus the previous owner left the wood in. So before I bought the body it started to rot from the inside because the roof insert wasn't sealed and water got inside. So two new quarter panels and a rear panel above the gas tank were installed. From what I've learned sand blasting with commercial equipment generates too much heat for sheet metal and not only warps the body but work hardens it. As stated above a home type blasting setup with the correct media should work fine but I would get a recommendation from a company like TPI for the type of blasting material. Good luck, I was in Mammoth last week to get out of the smoke in LA, you live in a great place. The FOGGER

 

No, all the wood is out of it... not sure I have access to any home blasting kits, I read in a few other threads the clean up makes it such a bitch it's just not worth it? If it's not that bad, something I can do and then sweep out the garage that sounds like a viable options as well, I can ask around and see if any local guys have a smaller sandblasting unit I can use for the day.

How long were you up here in Mammoth? If any Hamb'rs find themselves in mammoth, or wanting to come to Mammoth let me know. If it starts off as sanding party and turns into drinking party, snowmobiling, skiing/boarding, or somebody just in need of a couch to stay on for the weekend, or some lift ticket vouchers. I'd be happy to oblige, not to many hot rodders up here in Mammoth, mostly motox guys, and rock crawlers.

 

SODA BLAST!! get on the www and look for a (strip-co) near you they are all over the country... that body wouldnt be more than 450.00

 

Good old fashioned metal prep.

 

Yep. Soda Blast, but wait until you are ready to do the body work and paint it because it gets the metal so clean it will rust with the slightest bit of moisture.

 

OSPHO is the way to go after getting it down as much as you can the old fashioned way....patience and elbow grease.

 

Soda blasting isn't for rust removal. I also haven't had much luck with picklex 20, everything I ever used it on flash rusted within hours. As mentioned before, a small sandblaster with Black Diamond media is the way to go. You'll never get into all the nooks and crannies without blasting it.(especially on the interior)

 

Do yourself a favor, use epoxy primer after you remove the rust. This will prevent further rusting and provide a solid base for future body work.

 

The best bet is dipping, but then all the wood will have to come out. Blasting does a good job, but be very careful. Sounds like you guys have an industrial set up at work. You can warp the panels if not careful. Lower pressure and move around a lot. When you are all done shoot it with epoxy primer to seal it. POR 15 will cause you nothing but grief on a body, painting over it is gonna be an issue.

 

Epoxy I think is best unless you want to leave it "bare metal" to do the rest of the work to it, then I use etch primer by ppg. Turns the metal a funky green tint but it won't rust back unless left outside.

 

I started with a completely rusted body also. Chem stripping is the best but costly. Soda blasting is really good too! Once body is completely stripped clean, wipe down with prep sol or laquer thinner and use OSPHO. This stuff is really good. They use it after car is dipped. Before doing bodywork or priming just scuff down with 3m scotch pad and go to it. Hope this helps.

 

Get the right blasting company and there will not be any problems....I have had blasting done for years now with the same company.

 

I wondered when someone was gonna post that. 2 gallons of it, some decent duty rubber gloves, and a 1/2 box of red Scotchbrite pads. Use it full strength for the worst spots, dilute with distilled water about 25% for normal cleaning. You'll love it. Put it in a 32oz spritzer bottle for ease of application. It will leave an ashy grey look to the deepest stuff, and a gold/blue look to the smoother metal. Use compressed air after a good rinse, preferably with hot water if you can since the heat speeds drying. Cheap, fast, effective. POR15 is a good product for it's intended use and used correctly. It's on 2 cars that are valued well into 6 figures that we've done and holding up like it was designed to...almost 20yrs later. And I agree it's not for body work. It's an internal coating.

 

i use these to get to bare steel, takes place of 80 grit, perfect for bodywork or primer.. doesnt flatten out edges or heat to much..

http://www.eastwood.com/cleaning-disc-5.html

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...s/PRD~0475775P/3M+Rust+%26+Paint+Stripper.jsp

i get mine at the local walmart, 2in thick, put in your drill, good to go.. maybe 2 or 3 for a whole car to shiney metal

 

Thank you again, for all the responses.. Just to be clear here.. I used this stuff when I did my '69 to prevent rust from coming back (worked great in some spots not in others) I don't know what it was called, but I'm guessing it was something similar to OSPHO, Should I first remove all rust (by whatever means decided), then use something like OSPHO, and after that seal with an epoxy primer, or is OSPHO, and the Epoxy primer interchangeable.

I don't have any need/desire to leave it bare metal. I think it will be easier for me to do the body work if I have a guide coat anyways, so I don't mind spraying it then sanding (repeat 500x) haha.. but for the most part the body is pretty straight.

I think the pitfalls for me are going to be cleaning up and finishing all the chop welds, the patch panels behind the doors, fixing where I believe the molding should go around the rear window. (see picture) I could be wrong but I think that body line is supposed to still be around the upper edge of the molding on the rear window if not maybe that's the original chop mark since the guy did chop it oddly, and it seems like it was started to be filled in.. I could remove the line completely, but I'm not sure if that will make the body lines look odd, or if it's supposed to be filled in.

Outside of that there are a couple decent dents in the upper back of the roof, and for some reason.. the doors appear to hang lower then the body by about an 1.5"

In regards to metal prep, do you have a link? I'd a quick google search and returned a few different results. Is this what your talking about? http://halonmarketing.com/mall/Rust Away & Metal Prep.php

 

http://www.safestrustremover.com/

 

http://www.jefflilly.com/shelby-mustang-restoration/metal_prep.pdf

This is really close to the way it's done. If your rust isn't too thick you can clean it with the pads and metalprep. Good info.