The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by flatcrazy, Dec 19, 2012.
now that is funny. LOL
thanks for posting this link!
Yup. If it is out front, that's likely your problem, not the tires.
That is what the old dudes tell me too. Given the evidence presented directly to me, I have no reason to doubt it.
My old 26, tie rod out front of axle, stable at 10 MPH or 110 MPH and Ackerman correct, just don't tell Larry, TR
Sorry !!!! I can not see how Ackerman has anything to do with tire bounce. Yes Ackerman may have an effect on death wobble but not tire bounce....two different problems.
Tire bounce can be cause by out of round tires, out of balance tires or bad shocks.
If a 1/4 inch out of round is normal then square tires must be normal too. Yes I've seen tires after they were shaved and on one side they barely had any tread.....and they started out as new tires.
I had a bad experiance with a set of 450/16 Fierstones. We knew others had problems but tried them anyway and learned the hard way. We didn't let the car sit on the tires till the day it was done. Right away they were a problem. So they didn't get a flat spot nore did driving it cause it. They came that way!
We ended up switching to the 500/16 with the same wheels and car drove real smooth all the way above 80.
You couldn't give me a set of the 450/16's
For the guys not having problems... your shocks may be masking the problem. Just like a steering dampener will hide a death wobble....not fix it....hide it. A strong gas shock may do the same with a tire that is out of round. Just the same as a weak shock (friction shocks) will allow it to happen sooner.
On a car with uncorrected Ackerman, with the tie rod out front, as soon as you make even the slightest turn, one tire is plowing. The greater degree of the turn, the more the plow. Any road irregularities will cause that tire to lose contact with the pavement, causing a bounce or hop.
How did you go about correcting the Ackerman angle? Most setups do not allow the steering arms to be bent outward enough so that the line that intersects the tierod end and kingpin to ever meet the pinion. The arms will hit the backing plates long before that line is reached.
Good question gimpy, that front end was on the 26 by the previous builder, I just simply made it better. It was from a 2 wheel drive very O/T small sport utility vehicle. My shop D/D Jeep Cherokee is that way also. Yes tie rod ends are close to backing plates, but not touching of course.
I don't know if the person you are talking about posted a pic of his front end or not, so I want you to know I am not picking a argument with you about this. I am just trying to help you with the fact that that front tie rod arangement does exist, Ackerman correct, it's all good, Merry Christmas, TR
gimpy, if you remember not long ago, someone built a gasser style HAMB car maybe a early Nova or Fairlane type sedan. He used a 2 wheel drive Jeep front axle and tried to put the tie rod to the rear if I remember correctly and I pointed out if he put it out front he could correct the Ackerman in this instance and it was the problem, becuase the T/R to the rear gave him a Negative type of Ackerman- all backwards meeting at a imaginary point- IN FRONT of his rig, hope that helps, TR
My Jeep is like that too. Still does not mean that you can do it safely with vintage Ford parts, or their equivalents. If you look at say, a '39 Ford spindle, you will see that the distance between the kingpin and the backing plate, the limit to how far you can bend the steering arm, is extremely short. Maybe even just over 1". Look at the Jeep, it is more like several inches.
Yeah I guess you could get a little tire bounce on hard cornering....but if it only happens on hard cornering you should know it's an alignment problem.
If you had a bounce like we did in a corner you'd be in big trouble. At just over 60 the front tires would start to bounce violently. Probably coming off the ground.
Mr. Coker, if you do read this thread and decide to respond, could you please also answer this question: "Why can't you make your new radial tires tubeless?"
I called a close friend who has a Goodyear tire store that his Father started in the 40's. I knew that he had a Merimac tire truing machine in his warehouse. I asked Rex if they used the machine to true tires in the 50's and early 60's. He answered no --- those tires would have worn out or separate. When they did use it wae when the tire companies tried to duplicate the wear tendancies of the radial tire---glass belted/poly glass etc.---these tires would wear the second trend groove, usually the inside second groove and they would have to be trued to get the mileage out of the tire. This wae in the late 60's.
Just a note on Coker radial tires. I have owned four 235-15-75r wide whites that I bought from Coker, you could not balance them and cords broke in two of them after 5 thousand miles. I purchased Diamond backs and have 28 thousand trouble free miles of smooth driving. No more Cokers for me.
I have never experienced a flat spot on a bias tire unless the temperature was around zero "F". People had trouble with rims cracking when radials were first introduced on the market.
Radials produce different forces on the wheels than bias tires.
Radial tires were cheaper to produce than bias tires. Tire companies wanted to sell a cheaper to produce tire at a higher price. Tire companies published all kind of propaganda to sell a cheaper to produce tire at a higher price. This is called marketing. This propaganda still circulates today. People believe what they want to believe.
Really? Ten pages of bashing Coker tires? There's a reason bias ply tires aren't the norm, it's not the brand name on them. If you're gonna run bias plys, get used to cold "thump", death wobble if everything isn't spot on, all the things your Grand-dad suffered with running bias plys...
I drove on bias ply tires for many years before radials were around. Never had any problems. 5:60 X 15 Coker Firestones, WW. New steel wheels that were checked to have near zero runout. All new front end parts, shocks, bushings, kingpins, etc, all new, steering box adjusted. The tires bounced so hard at 60 -65 it was too dangerous to drive. The shaking was so bad it would no doubt break the car soon. The shaking would diminish above 75 - 80 but that doesnt help much. Several re-balances, no improvement. Put some 165R 15's on stock F-100 wheels, problem gone. I got the Coker tires shaved at an RV place, balanced on the car, and used Dyna Beads. $150.00 and time. Now they are shake free at any speed and feel like a bias ply which is fine.
The white sidewalls developed cracks, and blisters of rubber that pop out and fall out. No I did not get what I expected from Coker.
My 450-16s would work well on a clown car! they go up and down just like the ones on the parade cars I used to watch when I was a kid. I even bought 2 sets, guess im the Fool, (fool me once, shame on you saying) got 2 sets for sale, if you think you can make them work. by the way I have bought many sets of tires from Coker with great satisfaction!! THANKS Chris
Gary T asked a question way back on this thread that I would like answered as well. Can you use the beads inside a tube and how in the hell do you get them in there? How much and what brand? I wanna give this a try since I can't find anyone around here to shave my tires and I have played with psi up and down. I have two sets of Firestones from Coker. But I won't give up the look.
Ryan, Since you and Corky Coker have such a good working relationship with each other I was wondering if you have cautioned him on staying away from responding to the concerns that have been brought forth on this thread(and others in the past)? I am writing this with no intended malice or attitude as the written word can so often do, but with genuine interest in knowing what he has relayed to you about these concerns that have been raised. I know he has posted on the HAMB before but it would be really nice to have him answer specific questions directly to this very large audience of traditional hotrod customers. I think it would be good.
That being said, it may open a giant can of worms. I will continue to purchase Coker products as I believe they are an asset to the collector car market and they are made in America. Thank you for what you do.
...and as an addendum to Curbspeed's request, would Mr. Coker ever entertain the thought of having his tires shaved, as an extra cost, as an option? I know that I, for one, would have this done & pay the extra coin.
Curbspeed. You brought up the thought if Ryan has had any input. I'm pretty sure he took off for a well needed holiday. Maybe bring up the question after the holidays
If they have to be shaved,then they should modify their molds so the tread would be deeper--Wonder how many thousands of miles you shave off when they are shaved???I don't even know of anyone around my area that has a machine to shave them. I will be needing new tires shortly,and have had no problems with the stones that are on the car now,BUT after all this info,don't know what to buy . Maybe I should take a mini vacation to Chattanooga and let them install the tires & ride around down there for a couple days to check em out??
The Dyna Beads are small. They come with a little plastic bottle so you can pour them into the valve stem. You remove the core from the valve stem first. They also include new valve stem cores that keep the beads from blowing out when you let some air out of the tires.
The insane tire bouncing was unlike anything I have experienced. I watched the tires hopping up and down on the crowded freeway, shaking the engine and radiator left and right. I was surprised such a small tire could get so wild. Great experience for the first freeway drive on a new car. Building cars has many challenges, but I did not see that mess coming as I thought I was buying something quality.
It's good to see some things never change... coker tires still crap, some people still defending them. If you never intend to drive your car hard, then by all means buy them. If you drive it like you stole it, well you are going to need something else for rolling stock.
All this info is scary, I need to buy a complete set but not if I have problems, I love the 750x16 and 500x16 firestones and my car needs that look, it's about that look and I wouldn't even build without them, I would sell the car if I had to put regular radial tires on it. Coker should have the funds to make a bias ply tire run like a radial or stand behind all tires with a mileage warranty with some help on shipping,people will never be happy and always complain but that's life, thanks to Coker we have the tires we all love but now they just need to be reliable.
Why dont they start selling tubes with 4 0z of dyna beads already in them?
Labor would erase profit.
I agree with trying the Road Force machine. Their website will tell you what shops in your area have it. Also what rims are you running? Some wheels are lug centric and some are hub centric. If you have steel rims most likely they are lug centric. If they are you get much better results balancing them "lug centric". I have had the same problems in the past and found that was the problem...just another option to check out. good luick!
Saw this in another thread...looks like Diamond Back Tires may be on to something here. They show pie crust sidewalled radials that look like bias ply tires on their website...they're called Auburn Deluxe Radials....coming soon...here's the pic...
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