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Clutchflight?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by four-thirteen, Oct 10, 2003.

  1. I'm thinking it would be kind of cool to put a clutchflight in place of the standard 727 torqueflight in my model A. I might have a line on one and would like some input. Anyone on the board ever used one? Are they at all streetable? are they a hassle to play around with? and most importantly, do they work any good?

    From what I understand, they were modifidied by B&M during the 60s in order to avoid the crummy converters available at the time. They thought the problem was in the converter, but the automatic part was fine, so the solution was to put a cluth on the front of the tranny. So, you could launch the car from any RPM and still win automaticly. Dave
     
  2. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]



    I had a clutch 400 Turbo.
    Same deal but on a Chevrolet 400 Turbo.
    Ran it on my street/strip Big Block Nova in the late 60's.

    Worked good but I found it hateful on the street. My 400 had a reverse valve body in it also and it was hard to tell which gear you were in a the redlight. Push the clutch in just like a straight drive transmission but I had to put it in neutral and then 1st everytime your came to a light. If you forgot.............it was not nice.... [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Had to shift it also.......



    [​IMG]
     
  3. I got an old article from car craft from about 67 or so outlining their new clutch-hydro-turbo 400. Yes, same thing. Problem with the artcle is it doesn't tell you how to set it up, just how they made it.

    The car wouldn't be a daily driver, it will just see some cruizing and such. Might take it out to vegas next year, but thats about it. To me, streetable is being able to go 100 miles and not have the hole car fall apart. If the 'flight is like the 'turbo, it sounds good enough. Thanks, Dave
     
  4. 48_HEMI
    Joined: Oct 3, 2002
    Posts: 838

    48_HEMI
    Member

    I've got a clutch-flite behind a 354 Hemi for the street, comp model 727 torque-flites have a 7/8 inch imput shaft mine has a 1 1/8 and is rated up to 1500 horse. using an old typewriter shift. came out of a Mopar AF/X car. haven't run it but had a friend in the seventies also and he never any problems! if you're a gearhead, but don't want to send the wife or girlfriend (or worse yet both together) on a beer run without proper supervision. you have to shift them up and down plus use the clutch at stops.if I could come up with an adapter I'd probably run my B&M Hydro-stick instead.
     

  5. gettingreasy
    Joined: Sep 21, 2002
    Posts: 817

    gettingreasy
    Member

    I've always heard they like to dissenigrate the internals. Never had any experiance with one but I've heard of people making 904's clutch flites to.
    -Jesse
     
  6. shifts
    Joined: Dec 13, 2002
    Posts: 527

    shifts
    Member

    Ran one in a A dragster back in the mid 70s, not very reliable. I could get 6-8 passes before it would grenade the planetarys. We build a convertorless automatic for the roundy round boys & it holds up real good.Basicly it uses a coupler from the crankshaft to the pump & input shaft.When you step on the clutch pedal it opens a LARGE valve to dump line pressure.Let clutch pedal out, you go. Very simple & it works.Not nearly as much shock on the internals either.
     
  7. Shift:


    i like the your idea of dumping main pressure, as a means of clutching the autotrans... elimates the need for both a converter and a clutch... pretty cool.

    i wonder if you even need a clutch pedal assy at all, why not use a push button switch on the gear shift knob to control a dump solenoid valve..

    anyone done this sort of scheme? over heard of it? would it conceivably work?

    bob
     
  8. [ QUOTE ]
    came out of a Mopar AF/X car. <snip> if I could come up with an adapter I'd probably run my B&amp;M Hydro-stick instead.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'll find you an adapter, and you can sell me your clutchflight. I need one for my model A and one for my AF/X car.

    The 727 in my model A has already been race preped by myself for super hard shifts, and I might build a manual valve body for it.

    A clutchflight sounds like it is streetable enough for me. It doesn't take much for me, as anything slightly better than an in&amp;out box would make me ready for a road trip. I don't care if I have to replace the internals every once in a while, if the thing will last a few hundred miles. Do you have to run an external hydralic pump because you can't run the standard pump drive because of the clutch? Thanks, Dave
     
  9. shifts
    Joined: Dec 13, 2002
    Posts: 527

    shifts
    Member

    Bob, you're right you really dont need a clutch pedal.Actually we use a dump valve &amp; a hand lever next to the driver for the modifieds. For the street I'd use a clutch pedal tho. We have played around w/ solenoids, but never had much luck.The problem is that solenoids bring on the line pressure too quick. Its like dumping the clutch everytime you take off.The dump valve setup brings it on more gradual,thus less driveline shock.Dave, unless you get a complete clutchflite keep in mind that you must machine the bellhousing off.Both of the trans applications should be able to shift automatically unless someone has made them full manual. Dave
     
  10. BigJim394
    Joined: Jan 21, 2002
    Posts: 767

    BigJim394
    Member

  11. I never ran a clutchflight, but I have run a clutch turbo. It was as streetable as anything else with performance in mind.

    Here's the only problem I ever encountered, on a regular automajic the torque converter works like a shock asorber, very forgiving. With a clutch it is more positive (less slip), so if you hammer it and it hooks up something has to give.

    My problem was '63 Impala (heavy), 396 (bored, stroked, etc.) good tires (wide positracs) for the time, and a Schafer Clutch. A good heavy foot, good traction, and either broken u-joint or axle. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Now, a standard clutch, an A-Bone(light), and not a whole lot of traction, you shouldn't have a problem. I'd do it[​IMG]and work the bugs out if there were any.

    I loved my clutch turbo. [​IMG] And even knowing what I know, I'd do it again. [​IMG]

    If it don't make ya dirty it ain't yours [​IMG]
     
  12. Jim, thanks for the abay posting. My dad is on business in LA, so he can pick it up for me If I buy it. That one doesn't look like it has a provision for a front pump on it, and requires a power steering pump for to supply fluid preasure?

    Thanks for all the input. I assumed all cluthflights would be manual valve body equiped, but i guess not. For the street I'd prolly mess the the internals until I found a good pressure that wouldn't come on too hard. Maybe even figure out a way to adjust the pressure from the drivers seat.

    On the clutchless auto, what about using a solenoid and an acumulator(sp?) to slowly bring up the line preasure? just a piston with a spring would work. You could control how hard it hits with an adjustment screw pushing on the spring. Thanks, Dave
     
  13. shifts
    Joined: Dec 13, 2002
    Posts: 527

    shifts
    Member

    Dave, you're right the B&amp;M units were all full manual out of the box. As far as using an accumulator in the clutchless autos, I suppose that would work also. Think of this tho, cluthflite vs clutchless you dont have to run a flywheel,clutch, press plate,or TO bearing. A lot of rotating weight savings &amp; tons of instant revs.I think the guy on Ebay is real proud of that one dont you? 1025.00 reserve? BTW, really like you coupe. Dave
     
  14. BigJim394
    Joined: Jan 21, 2002
    Posts: 767

    BigJim394
    Member

    A $1025.00 Reserve?
    Yikes!
    Probably won't sell, though with lots of guys with big money trying to restore or duplicate their old drag cars, it might.
    If it doesn't sell it may show up on ebay again with a more "resonabale" reserve.
     
  15. shoebox72
    Joined: Jan 24, 2003
    Posts: 1,489

    shoebox72
    Member

    Put an old Chrysler "Fluid Drive" in it. LOL [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Alot cheaper. [​IMG]
     
  16. Wow. $1025 reserve? Shifts, how did you find that out?
    I'll bolt up a toyota box before I spend that kind of moeny on a used up piece of race junk.

    I thought about it, and I'm really digging the idea of the clutchless auto. Have you ever actually done it to a 727? I assume the circle track guys use chevy trannys. I could get all the pump drive stuff and the input shaft drive from an old converter, heli-arc it together, and machine it on my lathe. Only hold ups I can think of are what type of valve or solenoid to use, and where to tap off the line pressure to drain all of it at once, with no restiction. Do you lose lubercation when you lose line pressure? I want to think that would be the equivelent of towing the car with the driveshaft still on, which would lunch the tranny after a while.

    Um, fluid drive is what I'm trying to get away from.

    Thanks Dave
     
  17. BigJim394
    Joined: Jan 21, 2002
    Posts: 767

    BigJim394
    Member

    I don't know how shifts found the reserve, but in the past I have found that most sellers will tell you what the reserve is if you ask them via the "ask seller a question" ebay email. I have seen clutchflites show up in the High Performance section of Hemmings. Also keep checking the NITROLAND online classifieds:


    http://www.dragsters.net/nitroland/forsale/index.html
     
  18. old beet
    Joined: Sep 25, 2002
    Posts: 5,750

    old beet
    Member

    We ran one in a B altered T roadster in the 60s, worked fine, but the added weight kinda hurt. Went back to a 4 speed. Think it would work on the street in a lite car....OLDBEET
     
  19. shifts
    Joined: Dec 13, 2002
    Posts: 527

    shifts
    Member

    Guys, I think I screwed up on that reserve thing. I clicked on the "reserve not met" next to the bid &amp; another window came up giving the 1025.00 price. It isnt for the tranny tho.Dumbass huh? 413a, yes most of the roundy round boys use powerglides but I have done 727,904,C4,C6s &amp; GMs this way. You are right on as far as making the drive setup. It is true that there isnt any fluid moving when valve is open, but remember that now theres no convertor to make all that heat&amp; nothing is turning except input shaft when valve is open.Thats another nice thing, these things run cool.As far as the valve &amp; fittings you'll need, Fleet Farm or any hardware store should have them.Hell, we're only about 75 miles from each other &amp; I wanna see your cars. Give me a call or email me &amp; I'll drive over one day.I could bring the stuff you need with me.Dave
     
  20. BigJim394
    Joined: Jan 21, 2002
    Posts: 767

    BigJim394
    Member

    Here's another ebay cluthflight (set up for 4WD) that didn't sell last week (failed to make the Reserve with a top bid of $450). You might want to ebay email/ask seller a question him to ask more about and if it's something you might want and could convert easily back to a "normal" tail section, how much he actually wants for it. The seller didn't go to any great effort to clean it up for the pix, but it could be a good piece.


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=2436182457&amp;category=33727
     

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