Register now to get rid of these ads!

clutch ? in a t5 swap

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by servi53, Oct 6, 2012.

  1. servi53
    Joined: Jun 28, 2006
    Posts: 338

    servi53
    Member

    Looked through all of the t5 swap threads here and it seemed pretty straight forward, so I jumped in with both feet. Got the s10 t5 cut 1/2" off the pilot bushing pin, and an inch off the throw out bearing collar, as stated in the threads here. Bolted up nicely just like it belonged, got the right length drive shaft and u joints and installed. All looks good but it's as if the clutch won't disengage, when looking under it I can see the pressure plate releasing. Any ideas from the experts, because I am confused as I can be. Won't shift into any gear while running, and just takes off if I try to start in gear with the clutch pushed in as if I wasn't even touching it. Any and all help would be appreciated, thanks in advance. George
     
  2. Lurk king
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 197

    Lurk king
    Member

    A little info on what motor and bellhousing you are using would be helpful.
     
  3. supervert
    Joined: Mar 8, 2009
    Posts: 433

    supervert
    Member

    Clutch disc to thick for the pressure plate ?
     
  4. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,818

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    I am going to ASSUME this is a stovebolt/T5 swap.
    There are two different GM throwout bearings, one long, one short. Use the longer one.

    Now tell us more, bellhousing, fork, linkage, flywheel....
     

  5. servi53
    Joined: Jun 28, 2006
    Posts: 338

    servi53
    Member

    motor is a 235 straight 6 used all original parts for swap except the clutch disc from the s10 to match the splines on the trans input shaft, that was how I understood it to work from the info I got here. And yes my throw out bearing is longer than the s10 one, and as I said I can see the clutch disengaging when the clutch is depressed. Is there a possible problem with the pilot bushing and pin locking together maybe? thanks for the help guys
     
  6. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 324

    Bluedot
    Member

    Possibility: the clutch disc may be warped a little. Easy to bend it a bit when stabbing the tranny if you're not super careful. It wouldn't be easy to see just looking at it.
    Another idea, and I made this mistake once. The disc has a flywheel side and a pressure plate side. I never remember for sure which side the spring side should be without looking it up (unless it's marked - most are), but I do know if you install it backwards, it will not work. Made the mistake once myself many years ago. Sometimes the simplest stuff will bite me in the butt.
     
  7. I had to extend the splines on the input shaft on mine to get it to disengage completely.
     
  8. servi53
    Joined: Jun 28, 2006
    Posts: 338

    servi53
    Member

    installed springs to the trans side, as that is how the old one was installed when it came out. thanks George
     
  9. Only thing I can think of is maybe the inch you cut off the bearing retainer isn't quite enough, causing the disc center to hit the edge of the retainer before the disc is completely disengaged.even though it appears to be....taking a little more off the retainer or maybe even grinding down the lip of the disc center hub a little would give you enough for complete disengagement.
     
  10. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 30,190

    Mr48chev
    Member

    You should be able to look up inside the bellhousing at the clutch and watch what is happening while a helper pushes in the clutch pedal. With the trans out of gear you should be able reach up with a flat tip screw driver and turn the disk when your helper pushes in the clutch pedal. you should also be able to see the pressure plate come back off the disk freeing the disk. That way you should be able to decide if the linkage or throw out bearing isn't allowing the pressure plate to move far enough or if the disk or something related to it is hanging up.

    I've seen (and replaced) a couple of clutches where the previous installer let the weight of the trans hang on the clutch splines and warp/bend the clutch disk to where it wouldn't release right. That usually happens with a heavy truck four speed though.

    One thing that I've found that helps avoid that problem is by taking a couple of bolts the correct size to screw in the bellhousing that are a few inches longer than the regular bellhousing bolts and cutting the heads off and cutting a screwdriver slot in the cut off end. put those in a pair of the holes that match places on the trans where they won't be obstructed on the back side and they will act as guides along with helping support the trans a bit and not putting all of the weight of the trans on the clutch disk if you have to stop to change your position or grip.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  11. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,818

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    How much did you trim off of the TO bearing collar? I had to cut mine back until you could *just* see the end of the splines. then I made the clutch pull rod "Z" down so it pulled straight and adjusted until the pedal had the right amount of disengage. I'm thinking you may have half the pedal used just to take up slack in the linkage.
     
  12. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 324

    Bluedot
    Member

    After your reply, I went and looked it up - tranny side is correct.
    Another thought: when I used an S-10 T5, I used an S-10 disc like you did, but also used an S-10 pressure plate. I had to have the flyweel redrilled for the S-10 clutch pattern, but it worked perfectly. I know that's buying your way out of the problem instead of fixing it - just depends on your patience quota. I don't have much.
     
  13. Cortney
    Joined: Aug 11, 2008
    Posts: 371

    Cortney
    Member

    Hate to say it, but, I've done the same thing thinking that it was in right. Eventually I had to yank the trans again and saw that the clearly marked "flywheel side" stamp was not on the flywheel side. Flipped it around and it worked like a charm!
     
  14. HawgHead
    Joined: May 10, 2012
    Posts: 48

    HawgHead
    Member

    Well it's obvious that the input shaft is constantly being turned even with the clutch pedal is depressed. Assuming that the whole swap is indeed assembled correctly, there are only two possibilities. First would be the clutch is not releasing. Again assuming that everything is assembled correctly (correct throwout bearing, proper spacers if needed etc.) then I would check the clutch adjustment. Ensure there is no more than about an inch of free play in the pedal, ie. you should be able to depress the clutch about an inch before you can feel the throwout bearing engage the clutch fingers.

    Second the crankshaft is turning the input shaft. If when you shortened the pilot bearing part of the input shaft, you left a burr of some short, it could be preventing the input "pilot bearing pin" from turning freely inside the pilot bearing and thereby having the input shaft being driven by the pilot bearing/crankshaft. Another problem could be that the input shaft is forced up against the back of the crankshaft, such that part of the input shaft where it increases in diameter from the "pilot bearing pin" to the splined portion that the clutch disc rides on could be rubbing against the pilot bearing/end of the crankshaft. Does this conversion use a pilot bushing or and actual roller bearing?

    Scott
     
  15. servi53
    Joined: Jun 28, 2006
    Posts: 338

    servi53
    Member

    success!!! shimmed the trans back 1/4" with alignment shims and all is well, so maybe the inch off the throw out bearing retainer should have been 1 1/4" to work without a hitch. Thanks for all of the help guys, it's very much appreciated, now I'm going for a ride.
     
  16. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,818

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    But now the transmission is not located properly and you'll soon start to wear out parts inside your transmission.
     
  17. Agreed. I'd figure it out and fix it before too long!
     
  18. HawgHead
    Joined: May 10, 2012
    Posts: 48

    HawgHead
    Member

    I have to agree with the above posts. With the trans shimmed back, it's not supported like it's supposed to be when firmly bolted up against the block. As a minimum I'd think you'd need an adapter or shim that is the same shape all around as the block/bellhousing.

    Scott
     
  19. lowrd
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 334

    lowrd
    Member

    Just a thought, on my 235 I used a clutch disc from a Astro Van as the hub is not quite as deep as the S10. The S10 disc would hang up on the splines stopped on the input shaft without a spacer between the trans and bellhousing. The van disc eliminated the problem and spacer. Disc part number RCF4201 from NAPA
     
  20. JAWS
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,846

    JAWS
    Member


    Moving it out the quarter inch makes the difference? If it was me, I would remove the clutch and plate. Reinstall the trans and spin the motor. This would eliminate the crank and inputshaft as culprits or establish them as.

    The trans needs to be bolted up tight to the bell housing and the bell tight to the block/plate. The bolts are there for alignment and don't play as much of a part in handling the weight and stress as most would think. The mounting surfaces do the most work.

    Just my .02
     
  21. brokenspoke
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,925

    brokenspoke
    Member

    Your problems are just beginning to happen if you don't fix it right
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.