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Clueless Buyers with cash, Firm means Firm

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by roddin-shack, Feb 23, 2011.

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  1. Stu D Baker
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,655

    Stu D Baker
    from Illinois

    Not that I agree with this, but many of the popular books on negotiating skills, layout this exact scenario. The premise is to get the seller to invest a considerable amount of time with the buyer and this is supposed to "wear down" the seller, and in theory, accept the lower offer, rather than lose the sale and his time. This is a classic (he got you in the garage at 2:30a.m.).

    The buyer did it the way the book described, however, he just jerked the wrong guy. Good for you. Stu
  2. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419


    I get that he didn't go about it in the best of ways, but I think you're taking it a little far. Price was 35k firm. He was 2k short, that's 33k cash. I understand that you have far more in it, but 2k in my opinion is not worth getting all up in arms about. I watch a lot of cars on CL and even here in the classifieds here that run for months and months with people continuously dropping their prices. Sometimes they end up 10% less that their first post and still can't move it.
    Selling cars is a hassle, so is buying them. it's not for everyone, but being offered 2k less isn't the end of the world. Hell man, I've had running driving O/T cars for sale for 300 bucks, and spent months selling em. Rejecting 100 dollar offers on an hourly basis. Pretty sure your buyer tried his damndest to come up with your purchase price but fell a little short. No big deal. You've still got the car and he had to drive home without it. What's to be upset about?
  3. Selling is a negotiation. Pure and simple. Each of us has a distinct negotiating style . It is understanding a few basics that will make the sale beneficial to all parties involved. Several years ago I attended a couple of negotiating seminars put on by a man named Jack Kaine , from Kansas. To emphasize the importance of all the points of influence he proposed a small excercise . Groups of three were selected and the following senarios given but not shared with each participant of the negotiation.
    Person A.
    You have an orange the only one in the world. You also have a terminally ill child who is cherised dearly. You must sell this orange to get the $ 100k to pay for the treatment to save your childs life
    Person B

    You have a severely ill cherished child . You need the seeds of an very rare orange to save the life of your child. You only have $50k left to your name.

    Person C

    You have a severly ill cherished child. You need the juice of a very rare orange to save the life of your child. You only have $50k left to your name.

    We had 20 minutes to complete the negotiation. Since you know what each persons situation was, you know that a good outcome was possible for all.

    Only one group in 15 saved their childs life.

    The exercise really makes you think about everything involved with a sale of an item.
  4. roddin-shack
    Joined: Apr 12, 2006
    Posts: 2,424


    You are missing the point here, that being a FIRM price is a FIRM price, and just because you have cash to wave in the sellers face doesnt mean you will get it at your reduced offer.
  5. FoxSpeed
    Joined: May 19, 2009
    Posts: 385

    from NorCal

    seems to me he got out of the deal. Pissed you off, but my guess is he had the $1500. in his pocket. I been to sellers homes before, even flew to see a car, just as some folks can't see flaws in their loved ones, they don't see them in their cars as well. Firm doesn't mean crap. The guy was right, cash talks and he offered what he felt the car was worth. My guess again is that the the seller wasn't going over to buy the reduced price car and hand over the asking price without some negotiation first. Too many "ego" prices on these cars nowadays.
  6. roddin-shack
    Joined: Apr 12, 2006
    Posts: 2,424


    Holy Shit, That is a little heavy for what happened here, the guy simply did not have enough cash to meet the FIRM price.
  7. roddin-shack
    Joined: Apr 12, 2006
    Posts: 2,424


    Before you start running off, read the post in full. The guy loved the car it was just what he had been looking for, he made the deal including the extra $500. to deliver it then waved the cash, he didnt get out of the deal, I did. I am positive he did not have the extra cash or he would own the car now that is how badly he wanted it.
  8. Fixxxr
    Joined: Dec 5, 2009
    Posts: 157

    from Sk, Canada

    I like the way this guy just "assumed" you would take the $33k! I get a kick out of that. When you're selling something you can almost expect the buyer to haggle a bit...and that's alright. When you see firm in the just don't go there. It's take it or leave it. Plain & simple.

  9. By participating in the exercise you get an understanding of your individual negotiating style. Each style has its strengths and weaknesses. Knowing your individual style goes a long way into making a successful sale.
    I only posted this only to get people to think about what is going on in a transaction. Sometimes you need something this deep to awaken one . I completely understand he didnt have the cash and mislead you.
    As Stu said he tried to use the lever of time in the negotiation . You did correctly and took over the control of the time. One of the cardinal rules in a negotiation is " If you control the time you control the negotiation." but time changes our situation every second.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011
  10. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419


    No, I get it. However I will say that setting a firm price and advertizing something at a firm price are two different things entirely. If you wanted 35k, then you should have priced it at 37k, or hell even 40k. Despite the current in this thread where everyone is saying "that's my price, take it or leave it" that's not how negotiating works. It's not ecnomically sound thinking. There are multiple reasons that people buy through person to person transactions, and the number one is that they WANT to negotiate. They go through a brokerage firm, or buy from an auction, prices go up instead of down. People that don't want to go through those types deal person to person. It's not about him trying to "screw you", it's about him trying to negotiate. It's what people do. If it offends you, you shouldn't be trying to sell cars.

    I agree completely. There is a good chance he had the rest, but just didn't see spending it on that car. These cars are our babies and we don't see or acknowledge every little thing that's wrong with em when we talk about em. I've seen really solidly built cars that had little ticks or imperfections that don't matter to the previous owner, but definately make me rethink deals.
    Bottom line, if you're going to be insulted by offers and bartering, you shouldn't be trying to sell cars. It's not as easy as hanging a price tag on something and waiting for a buyer. Seems like a new thread about this kind of thing gets started daily, and it's usually from the seller's prospective.
    Plus there's nothing wrong with being stuck driving that cherry 5-window another season.
  11. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,797


    I am a retired new car dealer and we had customers try to negotiate the car price after the price was reduced from the original transaction price to their agreement. Firm has a different meaning to different people. I presume you still have the car and the buyer is trying to find another car he can negotiate the price. I think you should understand that most people purchasing a car want to negotiate and that is just human nature. If you stand firm you will find someone who will pay the price but it may take a while. Raise the price and works. People like to think they are getting a deal.
  12. stevechaos13
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 419


    Yep, good advice.
  13. Firm? what the fuck is that? I love to haggle, it`s in my nature. It`s business, a negotiation.nothing more. But it would save a lot of time for everybody to get things sorted out on the phone . He got your hopes up without asking first. I`m sure your car is worth what you were asking but with the economy the way it is,$35k will be a tough "quick" sale
  14. yblock292
    Joined: Oct 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,937


    a good friend of mine has a beautiful 61 cad convetable, 21k original miles black on black and white. had it at a local show , old guy keeps talking to him about the car and finally ask what he would take for it. he says 65. Old man gets his phone number and calls him that night, ask "how are the tires?" Buddy thinks how strange guy is going to spend 65k and is worried about the tires? Old guy says done deal , shows up with $6500, had no idea what the car was worth!
  15. chaos10meter
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    from PA.

    I had the opposite happen.

    I had an Olds 98 sitting in the implement shed for like 2 years and getting in my way.
    Pretty good shape except for needing a flywheel with a few more teeth on it.
    I put an ad in the local rag $ 500.00 "As is , needs flywheel ".

    Dude shows up , with the ad from the paper in his hand, we have to put a breaker bar on the crank nut to find some teeth to get it started but it fired up.

    He looks it over and tells me he can't go a dime over $ 650.00 !

    I hated to do it, but took his offer. :)
  16. roddin-shack
    Joined: Apr 12, 2006
    Posts: 2,424


    That is funny, you were right to take his offer.:cool:
  17. Redbows35panel
    Joined: Dec 29, 2009
    Posts: 165


    I used to sell a lot of restored Carburetors at swap meets which were clearly marked as to their price. When someone offered me a low ball price. If found that the following statement usually showed them the road, or they came up with the difference.

  18. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,531

    Francisco Plumbero
    from il.

    The phase money talks and bullshit walks has it's virtues, this man was applying the scenario. He was showing you that he was absolutely serious, no bull shit, done deal. Upon seeing this amount of cash I'm sure your brain went into a decision making mode. You chose to hold off and see what the next offer was, you may or may not have made the correct decision. In my trade almost every job is bid and quote, I have to make this decision on a daily basis with almost every customer, and it comes down to a shit or vacate the pot mentality. In all truth, in this environment there are very few sellers holding true to the firm concept, so you can not really fault the man for his attempt. I respect the mans verve and machismo for placing a $33,000 stack in front of another man. And in almost every case, a guy with a set that large has an equalizer on him, so that would be the last guy to thump for his cash stack.
  19. stanlow69
    Joined: Feb 21, 2010
    Posts: 5,421

    from red oak

    I wonder how many people on the HAMB go into a Walmart, Menards or any other major store and find the manager to dicker on a price for somthing they want. I bet it is high.
  20. wagoon78
    Joined: Nov 13, 2008
    Posts: 359


    I always like to negotiate and price things with wiggle room. He was probably expecting you did the same.

    If the guy already had $33k in cash, he can find another $2k in hours, days, weeks, a month? Politely tell him to go home and sell some stuff or get a second job. If the car is around when he has the full amount, he can call you back.
  21. borntowrench
    Joined: Jan 7, 2009
    Posts: 28


    If you saw the manager at my Walmart, you wouldn't want to dicker....:D
  22. tcb-1
    Joined: Jul 19, 2008
    Posts: 228


    seeing 33k in greenbacks would have screwed my brain up a bit...... then I would have caved.

    good for you for holding it together. if you didn't "have to" sell", well then you didn't have to sell it!

    I'm a loser, I would have shit.
  23. 49coupe
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 566


    Good for you that you stuck to your price. Reality is he could come up with the other money some time in the future, but didn't want to pay full asking price. He didn't low ball. I have never paid the asking price for any car I've bought.

    Finding a Canadian buyer who's not a dealer with $35K cash is next to impossible since the banks are not handing out money for toys anymore. Except for ONE person who ended up buying my '50 Ford convertible for cash, every other serious buyer wanted to me to wait until they sold their car or take it on a trade +/- cash. Few buyers today have that much cash on hand. It's one of the reasons that the prices cars are bringing at auctions like RM auctions in Toronto for nice finished cars is embarrasing.
  24. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 18,060

    from California

    love these threads... buying and selling cars and junk is a bitch.

    I had a kid do that to me with a 58 VW I had. $1200.00 over the phone, then he shows up and said his dad only gave him $1000.00 to spend. I thought about it for 5 seconds and took the $1000.00. sure I could have held out for the other $200.00, but then I would have to deal with all the Beavis and Butthead Volkswagon kids coming by and annoying me.

    not sure if he was the great negotiator or really only had the $1000.00 to spend... didn't care since I only paid $200.00 for it.

    I'm looking for a late model truck these days. I see "no lowballers" in the ad more than I would have thought was normal. these are usually the guys trying to sell a $2000.00 truck for $4,000.00. I went to look at one of these lowballer trucks the other day. pulled up to the truck in the street and it was beaten and scratched from end to end. I didn't even stop, just turned around and went back home. I was nice enough to call him when I got back home though. I thought that was very generous of me.
  25. That's why I always ask for more than I'm willing to take. There's always going to be lowballers.
  26. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,058

    Blue One
    from Alberta

    Very doubtful that this was the case here.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011
  27. Your argument is that he already agreed on the price being "firm" so therefore he needs to pay $35,000 if he wants it, so why did "clueless" show up with only $33,000?

    Simple, he was hoping to get it for $33,000. Selling anything can be a royal pain in the ass (no shows, tire kickers, low ballers etc) ... buyers know this too. He was obviously hoping you were tired of "dealing with a lot of clueless buyers" and just might be open to a real ca$h offer.

    I actually agree with the other posters that suggested keeping the fenders, boards etc and letting it go for the $33,000. I understand your agrument is based on principals, but a willing buyer, with cash, coming extremely close to your asking price might be the best "offer" you get for a while.

    In the end he put in the time and effort to make the drive, gambled and failed, all you lost (as far as I know) was a couple hours sleep. Welcome to the world of selling privately.
  28. vintage6t
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 351

    from CT

    I don't know, the guy was a cash buyer within 95% of your asking price and right there making the the quick sale you were looking for happen. I guess it all depends on how quick of a sale you want. What's the trade off of time to sell vs. the $2K worth?
  29. nofin
    Joined: Jan 7, 2010
    Posts: 321

    from australia

    I sold an OT van project once because I lost my storage and needed it gone quickly, so I advertised it at $1000 Firm, which was about half price. First guy that comes and looks at it that night and says "Will you take two under a grand?"

    "Two hundred grand!" I replied loudly "Absolutely!"

    Got my $1000. Firm is firm.
  30. R Frederick
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 2,658

    R Frederick
    from illinois

    She must be pretty ugly, huh?
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