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Clevor - 351W block, Cleveland heads

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by pcmenten, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. pcmenten
    Joined: Feb 22, 2009
    Posts: 12

    pcmenten
    Member

    I'm building a Clevor. It's an 80's 351W block with main studs installed. 73 Cleveland 2v heads. I bought a stroker crank and 351 rods with ARP bolts on eBay. I'll be using stock 351C pistons.

    I have some of the parts to convert it to a roller cam, but I'm not sure about the rockers and valvetrain. I don't have rockers for it, yet. I think I also have a kit that converts the non-adjustable rockers to adjustable rockers. I bought that a while back and never did use it, so this might be the right time for it.

    The heads are already done - Ferrea valves and new springs. I'll probably take them apart and give them a pocket port before the engine goes together.

    Edelbrock makes an intake for it, and I just ordered it from Summit.

    So, does anybody have any experience with building a Clevor? I'm thinking of ordering a Comp Thumper roller cam. The valve springs are good for a roller cam, I'm just not sure about the rest of the valvetrain. Chevy BB rockers?

    Anything I've forgotten? Probably use a Duraspark ignition.

    This will be going into a 70 Mustang Grande. I'm figuring on using a C6, just because I have one. I don't want to have to lay down the money for a top-loader.

    Paul in Boise
     
  2. dirt t
    Joined: Mar 20, 2007
    Posts: 4,667

    dirt t
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Kingman,AZ
    1. HAMB Old Farts' Club

    I'd talk to comp cams reguarding your rocker questions.
     
  3. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,950

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not to checked out on Ford 351 engines. Question I have involves the stroker crank and stock 351 rods and pistons. What is your deck hight going to end up like?
     
  4. Gasserman
    Joined: Oct 14, 2005
    Posts: 616

    Gasserman
    Member
    from Tulsa OK

    Paul, Don`t use the BBC rockers ,they don`t work on a Cleveland head . We have tried them on a 351C before. The geometery is wrong for a C motor. Gasserman
     

  5. madmike8
    Joined: Dec 4, 2011
    Posts: 68

    madmike8
    Member
    from Tennessee

  6. pcmenten
    Joined: Feb 22, 2009
    Posts: 12

    pcmenten
    Member

    Re: deck height

    351W block height is 9.5"

    3.85" stroke divided by 2 = 1.925"
    351W rod length = 5.956"
    351C piston compression height = 1.635"

    equals 9.516" into an open chambered head.

    Mike, thanks for the link.

    Gasserman, I'd prefer to use the stock fulcrum rockers, but to get the clearance for a high lift cam, I'd have to order new parts.

    Thanks to all.

    paul
     
  7. Dynaflash_8
    Joined: Sep 24, 2008
    Posts: 3,016

    Dynaflash_8
    Member
    from Auburn WA

    Mustangs are tradtional? I know strokers are......
     
  8. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,694

    Weasel
    Member

    Hmmm - mine's a Windland - Windsor type heads on a Cleveland pillow block....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    pc menten...what is the part # for that Edelbrock intake ? Thanks.....

    4TTRUK
     
  10. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,694

    Weasel
    Member

  11. 65COMET
    Joined: Apr 10, 2007
    Posts: 3,086

    65COMET
    Member

    X2 on what gasserman says!!! The owner a 351C powered Altered I crew on tried the BB chevy rockers,WRONG!!!!!! ROY.
     
  12. pcmenten
    Joined: Feb 22, 2009
    Posts: 12

    pcmenten
    Member

    Summit list the intake on the invoice this way;

    EDL-7183 PERFORMER RPM E-BOSS 351

    The 7129 would fit the 302 block with Cleveland heads.

    Good info on the rockers. And I apologize for posting the question to HAMB. Somehow I thought this was a general forum, but it is intended for traditional hotrods. My bad.

    Thanks for the help guys.
     
  13. 65COMET
    Joined: Apr 10, 2007
    Posts: 3,086

    65COMET
    Member

    I don't see a problem,there are people asking about other late model engines and frames,etc.!! ROY.
     
  14. 26 roadster
    Joined: Apr 21, 2008
    Posts: 2,015

    26 roadster
    Member

    I have a 302 Clevor, used 1:73 Ford roller rockers w/ 290/300 Motorsport cam
     
  15. Are you guys using actual CLEVELAND heads, or the heads off the 400M which are 'Cleveland STYLE'? I'm just curious what the difference is, if any, since there are a shitton of boat anchor Modifieds out there... could be a cheap head source?

    JK
     
  16. FlynBrian
    Joined: Oct 5, 2007
    Posts: 759

    FlynBrian
    Member

    There are a couple mods you have to do to the factory cleveland head to work on a 351W here is a link with the Ford template showing you what you have to do:
    http://www.darkhorseracing.net/clevor_head_mod.htm

    Also noticed you said you were using factory 351C pistons in the 351W block. The 351W uses a longer 5.954L connecting rod stock, verses the 351C shorter 5.780L rod, make sure you take this into account with the stroker crank and 351C piston.
     
  17. Sounds good all except the poser cam. Comp cams even markets it as a poser cam. Buy yourself a real competition cam shaft even a comp cams competition cam shaft and be happy with the results.
     
  18. First, a clarification, then an answer. :)

    It's just a 400...the only "M" is the 351M.

    '70-'74 400s use a couple of head casting numbers, but the heads are essentially the same as the 351C 2V heads in open chamber configuration. Some people like the OC heads and some don't, but they are as good (or bad) as the "factory installed" 351C 2V heads.

    '75-up 400s, and all 351Ms ('75-'82) all use a head that is similar to the 351C 2V OC head, but has an extra cooling jacket around the exhaust valve guide. This considerably restricts the exhaust port, and can't be removed. Some of these heads have Thermactor and some don't, FWIW, but regardless, the '75-up heads are good for scrap metal only.
     
  19. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Weasel .. Thanks for the intake info.

    4TTRUK
     
  20. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,461

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    The Mustang came out in April '64- maybe you'd like to talk about when those 350, 400, and LS Chebbie engines that take up a lot of board space came out- but that's DIFFERENT, right? :rolleyes:

    And X2 on the Poser cam- why go to all that effort and then put a worthless poser cam in it?
    You could do this an easier way and a lot more power, starting with a 400 and the good aftermarket heads- spending the money on the heads instead of a stroker crank would get you a lot more engine. You can also do a reeel inexpensive stroker on the Windsor, 3.85 crank, stock rods w/ ARP's, and stock 302 pistons, 393ci and some good heads- the Cleavor thing was pretty popular before all the inexpensive aluminum heads came out
     
  21. Only side note to this is that the 400 has a unique motor mount pattern, and the BBF (385 Series) trans pattern, which may make a difference for some swaps/installations.* But you're right, the 393C or 400 are nice combinations for iron 4V heads, because they work the big intake port much harder and intake velocity picks up nicely. They do nicely with the various aftermarket "3V" and 4V heads too...:)

    *There are a few (very few) 400 blocks with the SBF trans pattern, but they are hard to find and usually pricey.
     
  22. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,461

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    For naysayers out there-

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Yours?

    What do the engine mount patterns look like on that one?
     
  24. 422 stroker
    Joined: Jun 8, 2012
    Posts: 1

    422 stroker
    Member
    from oshkosh,wi

    bbc rockers will work.
     
  25. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,284

    George
    Member

    In '73 400s were made with the SBF pattern, no idea why they would mod the block & then only make them for one year. Slap a 400 crank & pistons(if I remember right it's the pistons instead of rods) in a 351M & you got a 400. They've been used in some of the Engine build contests recently.
     
  26. Yep, pistons and crank...which is why anybody doing even a basic stock rebuild should just go ahead and convert a 351M to a 400...it's actually cheaper to do so (or the same price) because 400 pistons are easier to find and less expensive.

    The oddball 400 block was done in order to mate the 400 with the SBF-pattern FMX. I've heard three reasons for this: 1) a shortage of mid-size (i.e. 351W & 351C) engines, with the end of the 351C in sight; 2) a shortage of C6 transmissions, necessitating the use of the almost-ended FMX; or door #3), the use of a "medium-duty" transmission for a heavier car- in this case, a station wagon, since the 400/FMX combo is said to be installed in the LTD-based wagons only.

    Dunno which story, if any, is correct. Might simply be because it's FoMoCo we are discussing...:D
     
  27. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,972

    sunbeam
    Member

    I've got a 347 with ausie heads dont run the Crane stud kit with alot of spring pressure. Bad past experance.
     
  28. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,284

    George
    Member

    The C was produced through the '74 model year, it was ended in the Mustang in '73 but was still used in the Torino/Montegos.
     
  29. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,694

    Weasel
    Member

    As this is a Cleveland related thread, I might mention the Aussie 302C or 4.9L Cleveland - I had one out of a Falcon XB. This is the engine that had the famed and sought after 'Aussie heads' - 4V type closed chambers with the small 2V intake (2.06) and exhaust ports for high velocity. The block is a 2 bolt main with long (6.030) rods. These things are screamers and last forever. So there IS such a thing as a 302C which is all Cleveland....
     
  30. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,284

    George
    Member

    With 4V valves & tiny chambers. 3" stroke
     

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