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History Classic Indy roadsters: Most beautiful oval racers ever?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Bill McGuire, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Don't have any detail pics of the suspension, but this the 1947 car.


    5-13-yy.JPG 5-13-zz.JPG

    For 49 Olson brought a new car that did have QE sprung IRS and T-bar sprung IFS.

    5-13-w.JPG 5-13-x.JPG 5-13-y.JPG 5-13-z.JPG
     
  2. blueprint2002
    Joined: Dec 25, 2018
    Posts: 235

    blueprint2002

    Thanks you Rootie for all those great pictures, also for the info about the second generation car, which I didn't know about.
    Is it known who the builder(s) of these cars was/were?
     
  3. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Don't know about the 1947 car but the 1949 car was built by longtime Michigan driver/builder Eddie Zalucki.
     
    Speedwrench likes this.
  4. blueprint2002
    Joined: Dec 25, 2018
    Posts: 235

    blueprint2002

    Thanks again Rootie!
    Could this be the Palmer Spl #52 driven by Hal Robson at Indy in 1947?:
    Richard_Palmer.jpg
    And is this the Pioneer Auto Spl #64 driven by Hal Robson at Indy in 1948?:
    40.jpg

    That is to say, are they the same cars, re-numbered? Or even similar cars?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  5. blueprint2002
    Joined: Dec 25, 2018
    Posts: 235

    blueprint2002

    It appears that in late 1956/early 1957, Maserati built three V8s of 4.2 litres, suitable for Indy. These were based on their very competitive 4.5 litre racing sports car engine, and were delivered to Tony Parravano, who at that time seems to have run a team of racing sports cars, usually of Italian origin.

    Anyone know what became of those engines? Could they have been used for the Kurtis-built Frank Arciero Spl car?
     
  6. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Whenever I listened to the race in to 50's and early sixties the always mentioned Offy, Watson, who built some of the most appealing race cars ever designed. And Roger Ward driving on the Leader Card Specials Offy powered Watson roadsters. What or Who the heck was a Leader Card???
     
  7. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,372

    Fordors
    Member

    Leader Card was (is?) a paper manufacturer, maybe the Card in the name referred to card stock, a heavier paper used for business cards, etc.
     
  8. impala4speed
    Joined: Jan 31, 2010
    Posts: 488

    impala4speed
    Member

    I wondered about this also and found this:
    http://www.leadercardracers.com/
     
  9. B.A.KING
    Joined: Apr 6, 2005
    Posts: 4,039

    B.A.KING
    Member

    These are the most beautiful race cars ever.(Early Roadsters) I don't want to highjack the thread, but these bodies,Were they hand formed over wooden bucks? I just love the looks of these. Never been to race. Went to Museum in 91 when i was in town for Good Guys. But i always watch even today.Now about those bodies??
     
  10. RidgeRunner
    Joined: Feb 9, 2007
    Posts: 906

    RidgeRunner
    Member
    from Western MA

    Family owned paper co racing sponsor. A link to get you started on more detailed historical research: http://www.leadercardracers.com/about/

    Ed
     
  11. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    I knew about the family and the race teams, what I am wondering about is what the companies paper products were/are. Are they a competitor to Hallmark, did they print business cards, brochures? It must have been a lucritive product line.
     
  12. blueprint2002
    Joined: Dec 25, 2018
    Posts: 235

    blueprint2002

    Scarab6.jpg
    Not a laydown Offy, but it's close cousin the Scarab Formula 1 engine of 1960. Designed by Leo Goossen and built by Meyer-Drake, it also had desmodromic valve operation, similar to the Mercedes Benz W196. Some of that is visible in this cutaway drawing.
     
  13. wisdonm
    Joined: Jun 20, 2011
    Posts: 444

    wisdonm
    Member

    They made the zillions of punch cards that fed info into computers and recorded info from the punch time clocks of the day.
     
  14. blueprint2002
    Joined: Dec 25, 2018
    Posts: 235

    blueprint2002

    And the car in which it was installed. If not for the independent suspension, this cutaway drawing might show the George Salih Demler Special of 1957-58. Maybe the only Grand Prix car that was clearly inspired by an Indy car:
    scarab5.jpg
     
    deucemac likes this.
  15. blueprint2002
    Joined: Dec 25, 2018
    Posts: 235

    blueprint2002

    For the Inter-Continental Formula of 1961, this engine was replaced by a 180 cu. in. laydown Offy (unsupercharged), which I understand was built by Travers and Coon. Anyone have any info, specifications, pictures etc of this engine?
     
  16. blueprint2002
    Joined: Dec 25, 2018
    Posts: 235

    blueprint2002

    47 mercedes-benz don lee spl.jpg
    Don Lee spl Mercedes Benz s/c GP car at Indy in 1947, without success despite (or because of) it's awesome technical sophistication. Similar results for the next few years.
    Perhaps the ultimate humiliation was when it was entered in the 1957 500, fitted with a Jaguar XK engine of 210 cu. in., maybe with other changes as well, DNQ.
    I have been unable to find any further info on the car in this form (final form?), nothing more than a mention in a preview of the race. Anyone have any more?
    And what became of it thereafter?
     
  17. fnqvmuch
    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
    Posts: 306

    fnqvmuch
    Member

    Factory has it, fully restored far as I know. Just getting the 'witches brew' to correctly fuel it would have been impossible.
     
  18. blueprint2002
    Joined: Dec 25, 2018
    Posts: 235

    blueprint2002

    Thanks fnqvmuch, you put your finger on the very first problem the crew must have faced. There couldn't have been an Owner's Handbook with the car!
     
  19. fnqvmuch
    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
    Posts: 306

    fnqvmuch
    Member

    Not so sure anymore; it was #9 of 16 and half are "gone" so imma keep looking ...
    as of ten years ago Benz had two and museums in Munich and Prague one each, likewise 'collections' in Germany, Naples, Fla. and Cal., while Mulhouse has one-and-a-bit.
    Fuel apparently 85 % methanol and equal parts nitromethane, acetone, benzine and benzol. Maybe.
     
  20. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,372

    Fordors
    Member

    Interesting car, lots of cool parts on it. Looks like probably a 389? Hilborn, Vertex, Airheart, Halibrand and no doubt lots more. Did it at least have a tarp over it, or was it out in the open like that?
     
  21. BZNEIL
    Joined: May 28, 2005
    Posts: 660

    BZNEIL
    Member

    The stuff you come up with is amazing! Too many nice parts to be an era super modified, doesn't match up with a champ car entry necessarily either. Competition show rod? Wheels and brakes put it in the late 60's early 70's.
     
  22. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    It is most definitely a pavement super, that would be most awesome restored as such. Little 500, possibly, along with Sandusky would be a couple places to search for some history. That independent rear should help to identify it. Nice find, wish it was behind my barn.
     
  23. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,455

    noboD
    Member

    That;s pretty good looking. Needs saved.
     
  24. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    For some reason, it may be the hood, that car reminds me of the Warren Nulls' super from Columbus, Ohio, that Tom York drove in the mid to late sixties. It was a purpose-built super, to keep the purists from getting up-in-arms.
     
    Speedwrench likes this.
  25. If thats a Hilborne injecter manifold send the serial number to Holborne & they will be able to tell you who it was sold to new. That may or may not help.
    It's awesome !!!
    Cheers
    Tony
     
    Offset likes this.
  26. Offset
    Joined: Nov 9, 2010
    Posts: 1,871

    Offset
    Member
    from Canada

    Tom York at Sandusky, Ohio

    550-WD-110.jpg
     
    dana barlow and Speedwrench like this.
  27. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,701

    34Larry
    Member

    I have idolized these open wheel machines since I saw the first one when I was a young pup in the early 50's. That is why my you see what you see in my avatar.:D A guy up the street from me, (an adult), owned a midget car and drove it through the neighbor hood when tuning it for the Saturday night races. Just way to kool. :) For me its open wheels or no wheels (when it comes to hot rods that is).
     
  28. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,707

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    I thought EVERYBODY knew that in a REAL race car the driver can see all 4 wheels while sitting in the seat!
     
    AmishMike and Speedwrench like this.
  29. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,045

    rooman
    Member

    True story!!!

    Roo
     
  30. toml24
    Joined: Sep 23, 2009
    Posts: 1,620

    toml24
    Member

    I posted this link with the Yahoo Racing History Group but zero replies so far.
     

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