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Technical Chrysler Industrial HEMI questions.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Texas36, May 6, 2018.

  1. Texas36
    Joined: Oct 20, 2012
    Posts: 305

    Texas36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Houston Area H.A.M.B.ers

    Recently acquired a very clean and well maintained ‘56 331 from a friend of mine. The motor was used to start jet planes at a local airfield here in Houston.
    Does anyone have recommendations for a good street cam to use?

    Also I read that the dist. is no good for a car because of the lack of an advance, but Ide really hate to not save the one that came on it. Its a nice dual point that looks practically brand new. Is it easy to add an advance to these? Hotheads makes the adapter to use a SBC dist. so if not Ill go that route.
    Im still new to engines in general so give me some slack if I dont make sense

    IMG_7194.JPG IMG_7030.JPG


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  2. Every time I see this motor I get excited...

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk
     
    Texas36 likes this.
  3. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 3,309

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The stock automotive distributor for these engines is a pretty nice dual point unit with a good working advance. They should be fairly common on the used market because a lot of guys replace them with aftermarket units, which is not really necessary if you keep a stocker in tip-top condition. I know it doesn't have the "WOW factor of a magneto, but they are pretty cool-looking old distributor. I think there is also some overlap between the low deck Chryslers (like your 331) and some high deck Dodges and DeSotos, so you should be able to find one.
     
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  4. mickeyc
    Joined: Jul 8, 2008
    Posts: 751

    mickeyc
    Member

     
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  5. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 3,323

    Marty Strode
    Member

    The one I took out of an airport tug, was a 1956-354, ran great ! IMG_3097.JPG
     
  6. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,256

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I'm wondering if you could make or adapt some kind of electronic module to handle the advance curve, with that distributor. Like what the Megasquirt people do.
     
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  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 14,414

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Just use the traditional ones from the 50's!
     
    Texas36 likes this.
  8. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 708

    deucemac
    Member

    I just used a Hot Heads intermediate shaft and an electronic 318-360 distributor with an MSD box. Twenty thousand miles later it is working perfect.
     
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  9. Brett Wells
    Joined: Oct 13, 2016
    Posts: 51

    Brett Wells

    Hi there great looking motor, complete with Industrial bump valve covers and adjustable rocker gear!!!!!!
    Yeah I also would just buy a 331 or 354 Chrysler factory dual point dist with vaccum advance, and the Howard or Isky or Crower mechanical lifter cams, stick around 270-290 degrees duration, and 460-480 total lift, a Mopar P3690214 Street Hemi grind would go well in your 354, it has 284 duration Int-Exh, 0.471/.474 lift, and 106 Cam int centerline, talk to Hot heads they have cams forsale, use Mechanical cam as you have adjustable rockers, stay under 0.490 lift, and don't get to wild on duration for good low to mid range torque 260 to 280 Duration, 106-110 lobe centres!
    Get a good double row timing chain with multiple lower gear timing key ways to adjust cam timing to get right, I would try and time the cam to manufactures spec's using the different key ways.
    1957 Chrysler was 9.25 Comp, 1958 10 .0 Compression, stay under 10 to 1 compression, preferably 9.5 to 1, replace conrod bolts with ARP 3/8 bolts 383 big block ARP bolts, Hot Heads have all you need and much much more,
    they are trust worthy to deal with, and professional ! Get the rocker shafts ground down and hard chromed and reground to factory spec's and valve springs , would recommend 140 lbs valve spring seat pressure, and 300 lbs open pressure, as you have heavier rocker arms than standard non adjustable ones which can run 120seat pressure, buy and read The complete Chrysler Hemi Engine manual (Tex Smiths series) by Ron Ceridono before buying and doing anything , theres plenty of parts at Hot Heads , if you have anymore questions just keep asking, all the best Bretto
     
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  10. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 456

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You are getting good sound advice, if you take it to heart you will be fine. Hot Heads is your friend when it comes to early Hemi's . There is just about nothing you will need they will not have. It is not the cheapest place to shop but hey they do have the parts and usually in stock and ready to go.

    As to your dist you would be best served by not going with the Chevy Dist. The adapter to get the chevy in there sticks up very tall and does not look good on these motors. If you cannot find a factory dist the later MOPAR adapter and using a later model MOPAR dist is really a painless way to go. Hot Heads does have a dist it is electronic and uses one of the MOPAR modules, very simple to hook up and simple to use, they are not cheap though I think I paid $495.00 for mine. Using the later model MOPAR dist is a much cheaper way to go.

    "Brett Wells" advice on a cam is right on the money I think, and I would certainly go with a solid lifter cam. That is almost for sure what is in there now because of the adjustable rockers. However you can very easily run a set of NON adjustable rockers and a hydraulic cam. The non adjustable rockers are for sale all of the time and they usually only run about $200 to $250 or so a set. I mention this because if you do go that way you can sell your adjustable rockers for at least a $1,000 and that might help off set some of your other cost's.

    These are great engines and it looks like you made a good score...
     
    Texas36 likes this.
  11. Texas36
    Joined: Oct 20, 2012
    Posts: 305

    Texas36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Houston Area H.A.M.B.ers

    Wow thanks for all the helpful info guys. Looks like Ive got a few more options for the distributor than I thought I did. Unfortunately my motor doesnt have the adjustable rockers even though Ive got the dimpled valve covers :(

    Also is there a big difference running an aluminum flywheel vs a steel flywheel on these motors? Im trying to justify spending the extra $100 on the aluminum but not if theres only a small difference. This wont be a high HP fire breathing motor but I do want it to wake up some.
    Thanks again!


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  12. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 3,309

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Surprisingly, there are NOS aftermarket aluminum flywheels out there. I have scored three from various sources over the last 15 years. The last one was on eBay about 2 years ago. The difference between it and a used stock wheel was significantly more than $100.
     
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  13. Texas36
    Joined: Oct 20, 2012
    Posts: 305

    Texas36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Houston Area H.A.M.B.ers

    The HHH trans adapter kit gives the option of an alum. or steel flywheel with a $100 difference


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  14. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,256

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    There is such a thing as too light a flywheel especially for street use. I would ask the manufacturer which they recommend for your application. I would be inclined to use the steel one as being more practical and easier to drive. It should be lighter than the stock one.
     
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  15. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,067

    73RR
    Member

    Some good info above. As to the flywheel, a good general idea is light car = light flywheel. You decide how light is 'light'. If you look back at the factory muscle cars of the 60's you will examples like the RoadRunner, at 3500 lbs using a 33lb wheel....and they ran pretty damned hard in stock trim.
    As to a cam...You have about 7.5:1 c/r. The cam numbers above will make you cry at every stoplight.
    If you are planning a total rebuild thaen you have options, lots-o-options, and with 10:1 c/r the noted cam would work. I do not recommend the 106 cl cams in the EarlyHemi engines. They sound lumpy but they are not the best option for this engine.

    .
     
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  16. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,270

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Welcome to Hemi world! Looks like a great score and you've received lots of great advice. Can't argue with the above.

    Additional recommendations...

    Use the stock oil pump and rebuild it. EGGE makes kits. Don't adapt a later Mopar style. Also, agree to stick with the stock type ignition. The conversion to an LA style distributor is super easy as well, and overall basically looks the same.

    The cooling systems on these engines were ALSO great. So rebuild that water pump, if needed.

    You can sink THOUSANDS into these engines, but I think you'll find that if your engine turns out to be pretty clean, just some minor tricks and tips will get you going down the road with little to worry about.

    One of the things you'll want to check is the rocker tubes. 9 times out of 10 they are full of garbage and need to be cleaned, along with the oil galleys in each rocker that feeds the top end. Take the time to clean them out, catalog where each part lives, and inspect the shafts for play and damage. I've had a couple stock sets clean up and feed the proper flow of oil with no work needed. Some of the industrial engines didn't get used a lot, so you might be in good shape. Rocker rebuilds get expensive FAST!

    Flywheels. A lightened steel flywheel can be a good option over the stock weight flywheel. Remember the inertia of the heavier flywheel can be good, but everything will depend on the car it's going in and what type of driving you'll be doing. The lightened steel is a nice "middle" option and still light enough to get a light car going down the road nicely. But, if you're looking to spin it up quick, the aluminum will get you there.

    Over the past 10, 11, 12 or so years, we've put together the Hemi Tech Index. There is lots of great reading there. The link is in my profile. Take a look.

    DEFINITELY look for the Tex Smith series book mentioned above, the complete Chrysler Hemi is a must have book... if you can get it. Even Gary (73RR) above has an article in the book. A lot of people are out of them, though. Try So-Cal, though. They show it for cheap...
    http://www.est1946.com/browseproducts/Tex-Smith-s-The-Complete-Chrysler-Hemi.HTML

    Good luck and put together a build thread!
    Cheers!
    S
     
  17. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 3,323

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Ditto on the oil pump advice, don't fall into the later pump conversion trap.
     
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  18. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,832

    George
    Member

    The ind. have dimpled covers but very rare to have adj. rockers. You didn't mention what tranny you are using, but, the HH & Wil-cap adaptors are full circle type. You supposed to bolt the tranny up to the engine before you put the oil pan on. Gary (73RR) is Quality Engineered Components, if you going with a 727 his is horseshoe type. I've used his & I like them. You might check with him as an alternate to HH on parts also.
     
  19. Texas36
    Joined: Oct 20, 2012
    Posts: 305

    Texas36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Houston Area H.A.M.B.ers

    A lot more great info! Thanks guys. Yeah forgot to mention Im mating this to a GM 4 speed. It will be replacing the SBC in my ‘36 ford PU.

    I may do a thread on the actual swap after I gather all the parts


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  20. Pinstriper40
    Joined: Sep 24, 2007
    Posts: 2,819

    Pinstriper40
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Soaking up info... I'm new to the hemi world as well with a 354 Industrial motor.
     
    Texas36 likes this.
  21. Brett Wells
    Joined: Oct 13, 2016
    Posts: 51

    Brett Wells

    Hi there yeah I forgot to add what Scootermcrad mentioned about cleaning rocker shaft internal oiling in shafts, they clog up, small block chrysler rocker tube metal plugs fit in good, easier to get than early hemi ones, and cheaper, Don Garlits for many years used stock early hemi oil pumps, and even valves and rockers till the Donovan and ED Pink forged steel Exhaust rocker arms came out, then M/T alloy roller rocker arms, also meant to mention if using stock rods , get the side beams polished if your hopping up, stock motor can use rods stock rods with new ARP rod bolts.
    Sometimes it's better with these motors to go the little bit extra and have a good safety margin than run close to the wire and risk engine damage, they don't make new blocks anymore, and performance parts are costly to replace, but I agree stock oil pump rebuilt with Egge kit as mentioned above, you can buy on Ebay or HHH rear pick up sump, better for Hot Rods than center sump, use Chev water pump and adaptors if length is an issue, this info is in Tex Smith series of Hemi book mentioned above, Can use: 1951-56 146 tooth flywheel and stock 1956 12v starter, or Ebay aftermarket reduction starter with adaptors that use factory engine plate Cragar Offy etc, or you can use Later LA 273-318-340-360 130 tooth aftermarket flywheel , but all flywheels must have the 8 bolt mounting pattern, some adaptor use the 130 tooth, depends what bell housing and gearbox your using, Automatic 904 or 727 using the small block casing use 130 tooth ring gear on torque converter, and 8 bolt flex plate(HHH) and 130 tooth LA 273-318-
    340-360 starter motor, you will have to buy or make a gear box (LA) adaptor, I made mine. Tap the 8 holes in rear crank flange 1/2 inch 20 threads per inch, UNF instaed of using the original nuts and studs/bolts, also use ARP 1/2 20th flywheel or flex plate bolts (HHH) or speed shop.Anything your not sure, keep asking others who have been there and done that,better to learn from others who had done the trial and error process, rather than make mistakes and cost yourself lots of dollars!
    1957-58 used 172 tooth flywheels so do some research when buying old school adaptors to figure out which flywheel and starter, engine plate they use, I have many old speed shop and manufacturing catalouges if you need any questions on old school adaptors etc, Keep the FIREPOWER LIT, all the best Bretto
     
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  22. Brett Wells
    Joined: Oct 13, 2016
    Posts: 51

    Brett Wells

    Hi ther Hot heads Hemi has chev adapors, also try Wilcap, and Quality Components, TR Waters,
    Quality comp- gary.agc.gec@juno.com
    Wilcap Company www.wilcap.com
    TR Waters adaptors trwaters@together.net
    Lots of good info from many who are willing to share info gained over many years, wish it was this easy when I started play with the Early Hemi's 30 odd years ago! Bretto
     
  23. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,067

    73RR
    Member

    ...not sure where you got that adress from...it is at least 30 years old. Current info in my link.

    .
     
  24. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,832

    George
    Member

    Flex plate: just get a 426 Hemi flex plate . I used a BB starter on my 331/727. Starter usually doesn't fit on a hemi with a 904, a real shame, especially on low deck Dodges & DeSotos
     
  25. Texas36
    Joined: Oct 20, 2012
    Posts: 305

    Texas36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Houston Area H.A.M.B.ers

    IMG_7247.JPG Just received my hotheads trans adapter in the mail. Very happy with the quality! Will get pics this weekend of it all bolted up. I may do a new thread on the build??


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  26. Brett Wells
    Joined: Oct 13, 2016
    Posts: 51

    Brett Wells

    Hi there Texas36, Hot Heads parts good quality as you can see, I ran a Tilton reduction starter on my 392 in the 34 Chev 27 years ago, but Big Block Chrysler starter is a good way to go.
    I got a Offy 0401 gear box adapter to 32 -48 Ford, then will get a new Offy adapter (Speedway Motors) from 32-48 Ford down to a Chev T5 S10 5 speed box when money allows, will post some photo's of it when I get it sorted!
     
  27. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 260

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    Jealous is me. Cool score. I wish... I wish.... I wish:cool:
     

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