Register now to get rid of these ads!

Chrysler 354 Build Thread!!! It's Alive!!!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by D-Russ, Feb 20, 2012.

  1. EDIT: Go to the last page to see the latest update. :)

    I just picked up my 354 Saturday and I've taken an rough inventory of what I got.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  2. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,588

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

  3. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,546

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well, you did get 7 new pistons, right? Did he ever say if they were for a Hemi?
     
  4. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,288

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hmmm.... I would think there's a bunch of reasons NOT to run them, but everytime I say something like that an old-timer comes a long and says something to the effect of, "back in the day this is what everyone did", clearly proving I know very little... HAHA!

    Congrats on getting the 354 Dave!

    Maybe you can convert your Hemi into a SBC? :D

    Just thought of something else... Aren't wrist pins different as well? You may ALSO have the wrong rods? Did he say it ran before he took it apart? :rolleyes:
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,145

    Ruiner
    Member

    Pistons don't know what motor they're intended for...with that said, measure the wrist pin height, rod length and compare that to the factory deck height numbers...also be aware that valve reliefs may need to be cut into the pistons, but that's not a major problem...I'm planning on running 455 Pontiac pistons in a 361 Dodge big block with 440 Dodge rods, they're essentially the same bore but almost an inch shorter in wrist pin height, lighter and with the 440 rods I wind up with higher compression...it's a win-win...
     
  6. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,546

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If they are .040 over for a stock 4" bore, you'll be close to a .100 overbore on the 354, which might be too much. I think I'd buy new pistons before taking a block that far without a good reason. If you do, sonic check first. The 1/8 inch pin height difference is going to play hell with your compression, whether it's on the plus or minus side. A stock 354 piston has a dome on it, which this particular SBC piston does not. The H660CP is a flat top hypereutectic piston, so if the pin location is lower than the stock hemi it might work, but pay attention to the edge of the piston, because you may have it kissing the outside edge of the chamber. If the pin location is higher, then you'll end up with really low compression, because you'll not have the dome that a standard hemi piston does, and you'll also be lower in the bore. Might work if you're running a blower, but I'd never stick a blower on top of hypereutectic pistons.

    Your best bet is to call the guy and give him a piece of your mind for IMPLYING that the pistons were for a hemi, then have your Ross dealer buddy get you a set that are correct for your application.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  7. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,288

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Post a picture of the pistons, Dave.
     
  8. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    I'd venture a guess, assuming these are flat top pistons, and say they could have been an off the shelf item for a stroker, possibly using a 392 crankshaft.

    What kind of rods? Check pin height and rod dimensions.

    4.040 would be .102~3 over.
    I had a 354 made 390 that was made using a 392 crank, and I can not recall at this moment, but the crank was turned to fit off the shelf M/T rods for either a Ford or Pontiac, and custom Venolia pistons. Tom S. in Tn.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  9. sgmhemi
    Joined: Feb 10, 2009
    Posts: 280

    sgmhemi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Wisconsin

    I'd check with Bob at Hot Heads Research and Racing. He's a good guy and will answer your questions. There is also a tech forum for questions regarding early hemi stuff on his website. I got my Ross blower pistons thru Bob a couple of years ago.
     
  10. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,145

    Ruiner
    Member

    The absolute biggest concern aside from deck/valve clearance with using those pistons is assuring that you have the correct bore size for running hypereutectic pistons...just because they fit doesn't mean the bore clearances are correct, and you could end up with some major damage once the motor gets up to temp...
     
  11. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,546

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you're using the correct pistons it is. If you're starting with 4" bore 327 SBC pistons, you first have to bore the 354 block .0625 to get to the STOCK 327 bore. Add another .040 bore for the oversize that these pistons are and you're getting pretty close to Thinwall City, which is just a honing stones throw from Breakthrough Lake.
     
  12. Yes, baseline what you have before doing any machining, etc. What do the pistons measure up as, just curious. Can you "borrow" a 354 piston to match up the features on the set of 7?

    Bob
     
  13. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,288

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Fwew! Well that's good news!
     
  14. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    I saw this after I re-read. See my edit. Everyone is posting much faster than me.
    I can only think of a couple people in Tennessee with any Chrysler parts. One has quit and I think I saw an ad recently where he was liquidating. The other is still quite active. I've trusted both in the past, but without any names, I have no way of knowing.
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
  15. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,546

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Post a picture of the pistons you have, if you could.
     
  16. The pistons that came out of the motor (still attached to the connecting rods),
    and the 7 new ones in the box, right Dave?
     
  17. The valve reliefs in the new pistons sure don't match up to any SBC I've ever seen (or any non-hemi engine either).
     
  18. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,288

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Definitely look like Hemi pistons. Probably stock replacement. Cast? The "old" ones appear to have a bit of pop up to them. What diameter do the measure out at? If the old ones measure out at 4", they MIGHT actually be 392 pistons. At a quick glance, the old ones almost look like stock 392.

    I don't think push rods should be different in length between 331 and 354. However, the difference in length could be the difference between 331/354 and 392 (different deck height)? Could be wrong though. Never measured them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  19. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    331 and 354 use the same length pushrods
    and they're interchangeable between the
    two engines. (392 pushrods are longer
    though, due to the 392's higher deck height)
    Hemis use different length pushrods for the
    intake and exhaust. Could that be what's
    causing you the confusion and consternation,
    perhaps??.

    Mart3406
    ===================
     
  20. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,546

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The difference in pushrod length might also have to do with solid vs hydraulic lifters. I think the solid lifters had the pushrod pocket deeper in the lifter, not 100% sure.
     
  21. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    ahh...... I was thinking this was a running (complete) race type motor that may have had need of a piston or something. I can say for certainty the 7 new pistons look like cast Sealed Power or Badger, I can't make out that logo with the #205. Discard the boxes.

    [​IMG]


    Dude above there is correct. I certainly need pictures anyway.
    Saw the title post this morning and thought I might could help, sorry for my confusion but I'll watch anyway; Tom S.
     
  22. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,546

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    NE56XXXXX is a car block, 823 heads are from a 1956 354.
     
  23. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,191

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    I think you will need more piston pop up to get decent compression.


    Ago
     
  24. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,288

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would guess those are definitely going to be less than 9:1 or even 8:1, as suggested. If you're going to be building a nice little motor for that Vickey of yours, I would bite the bullet and get what you want. I know you aren't going to be happy if it's anything less than "perfect" in your mind. Not to say that stock compression wouldn't do, just saying more compression is better for a little more performance.

    The pistons you have there are probably stock, +40, cast pistons. You can pick a whole set of those up for around $250-$300, I suppose. $500 more you have some nice forged pistons of any spec that you want. I'm guessing you have to go through the rest of the engine, which will cost you a decent amount to begin with. Might be worth it just to go forth and get something you really want for just a bit more. Having one piston made might cost you more than a whole set of the same "stock type" pistons.

    Do you need a rod, also?
     
  25. Hey Dave, Happy Hemi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    good luck on getting the pistons sorted out.

    Watch what happens now HaHaHa
     
  26. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,288

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  27. Hey,
    Glad you got home with the lump. Sorry you had a toe stubber right out of the gate.
    I'll be going through Lebanon Thursday, if you need me to stop by the guys place. Maybe he will/can correct the problem.
     
  28. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,982

    George
    Member

    Should be noted that the OEM C/R can be optimistic by up to a full point, on know for sure is by measuring.
     
  29. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,179

    73RR
    Member

    Ignore the piston issue at this point and get everything else sorted out, and forget about re-using the stock pushrods. As soon as you deck the block or heads, or as soon as you get a reground cam, or as soon as you buy a new set of lifters how do you expect to maintain the lifter pre-load? You only have a small window to work with.

    By the time you have finished the rebuild on this engine, will an additional $300-$400 for forgings make all that much difference? You'll be glad you stepped up to 10:1.
    Let me know when you get to that point.

    .
     
  30. Pushrods intended for the factory solid lifter engines used different diameter ball ends. The pocket in the factory adjustable rockers is different than the non-adjustable rockers. The pushrods you pictured do not look like those used in a solid lifter engine. Perhaps the seller mixed pushrods from a different sized engine...

    When you measure the pistons for appropriate bore size, be sure to measure at the skirt. Above the rings the diameter is much smaller for additional clearance.

    A 1956 car 354 should have pistons with a casting number of 1619727 (for standard bore size) on the inside.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.