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Chopping a '36 Chevy Sedan

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Woob, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    I had no doubts the I-beam would hold up to standard use and then some, but I wanted to make sure it’ll hold up to dropping down out of the sky… just in case.:D

    So I tied it to the main crossmember with another brace and debated drilling a hole in it to make it match everything else.
    “Just cut the stupid hole!” right?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  2. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    Half-way through, all the smoke comes out of the drill… and I mean all of it. Now I’ve got a circle engraved about half the depth into the center of this bracket. I don’t know about you but I finished the hole with the torch, the doughnut from which can be seen resting on the bottom of the crossmember.

    That little booger in the pin hole was one thing, but I don’t own enough dremel bits to handle this much metal. Without much thought or any complaint, I sat down for some timely meditation with one of my Dad’s old double-cut, half-round files and cleaned the inside of that rough-edged, torch-cut hole.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 26, 2013
  3. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

  4. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    235 Straight Six & 4 Speed Trans
    [​IMG]


    10 Bolt Rear
    [​IMG]


    One front mount for the rear spring cut. One to go:
    [​IMG]


    Putting it together:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    The frame rails are tapered, front to rear. The mounts have to be parallel, like the leaves. You can't just align the mounts with the rails otherwise they'll be pointing away from one another.

    My son and I snapped a line across the rails at two measured points on the rails. This created a line across each rail that was perpendicular to the leaves and in line with each spring bolt.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    The rear mount from the inside:
    [​IMG]


    The shocks can't stay here. This space is for the gas tank. They'll get moved over the weekend.
    [​IMG]


    Rear View:
    [​IMG]


    and I still have to finish the front:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. GaryB
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,529

    GaryB
    Member
    from Reno,nv

    coming along just fine,like your work.watching your build
     
  7. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    The rear shocks are where the gas tank is supposed to go...
    [​IMG]


    so I swapped the lower brackets left-for-right to move them to the front,
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    and welded the upper brackets.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    The upper left bracket already had clearance to allow for plumbing brakes and fuel between the frame and bracket (previous image), so all that was really left was to make an elevated anchor point for the differential vent tube and add the bracket for the connection between the hard plumbing and flexible section of brake line.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  8. 4444Design
    Joined: Aug 25, 2012
    Posts: 292

    4444Design
    Member

    cool project

    like the new shape and conversion into a tudoor

    subscribed
     
  9. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    Time to figure where the motor mounts need to go:
    [​IMG]

    and the transmission
    [​IMG]


    It's nice to know the pedals will clear the '58 truck bellhousing and that some sort of clutch linkage is doable:
    [​IMG]


    and that led me to want to make sure everything clears before I weld any mounts or crossmembers in so on went the body...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    What's in your wallet?
    [​IMG]
     
    kiwijeff likes this.
  10. sigfurniture
    Joined: Sep 28, 2013
    Posts: 104

    sigfurniture
    Member

    this is a gold mine of information! and has left me both terrified and inspired in equal measure. I´m here doing my homework for the arrival of a 1939 dodge luxury liner, and wanted to see the feasibility of a roof chop and channel.excellent thread, you sir have a serious amount of patience.
     
  11. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    So once I knew where they needed to go exactly, I cut everything off some pieces of 1/4" plate that didn't look like motor mounts
    [​IMG]


    and tacked them in place.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    But I didn't like leaving everything on the original crossmember so I added the bellhousing mount from the ton-and-a-half that donated it's engine. Afterwards, I stripped-away most of the original (still shown in this image) leaving the pedal mount.
    [​IMG]


    Here's what it all looked like tacked in place with the body, engine, and trans out of the way.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    Then I started making gussets for the mounts
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    and set about welding them in
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I plan to bend the back gussets between two of the holes to fit the contour of the mounting surface; but if I attempt to do it cold, they'll more-than-likely bend at the center of the holes since it's comparatively weaker there. I'm currently out of O2 for the torch, so the heat will have to wait until I make a run.
    [​IMG]

    and here's a look from the front:
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    I finished the underside of the motor mounts and it’s no mistake that the cross-piece between the front and rear gussets doesn’t meet the lower portion of the frame rail. The front shocks bolt through the frame right behind these and I’ll need to be able to get a nut and a wrench up through here when that time comes.

    [​IMG]



    Previously I had picked-up some 7/8″ x .156″ DOM tubing to make a set of front radius rods.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    From here it was a little move to start setting up the front suspension to get the radius-rod mounting brackets properly located. With the frame still upside-down, I transferred a few dimensions from the front axle to a piece of 1″ square-box tube in white chalk. Since the brakes, backing plates, spindles and hubs are still on the front axle, it’s going to be a lot easier to move this piece of tubing around in small increments than it would be to use the real deal. “Easier” doesn’t necessarily translate into “better” but it does mean I don’t have to go through an undue fight to get an accurate placement.
    [​IMG]


    I knew I wanted the bracket to go in the same location as the old spring hanger. The frame already kicks-up here because of the original suspension, so there’s already plenty of clearance for freedom of movement, but the bracket won’t hang down unnecessarily and cause ground-clearance issues. The original spring hangers were cast-iron and riveted in place. Having removed them, the first order of business was to reinforce the frame in the same locations with 1/4″ plate.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  14. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    Reinforcing the frame for the rear bumper and hitch was just a matter of drilling holes in some 4″ x 4″ x 1/4″ plates. Since I’ll be using 1/2″ hardware, I stepped my way up from the small bit shown, which is a single-step bit itself.
    [​IMG]


    Since the nut will be up inside the frame, you won’t be able to get a wrench on it. Welding it solid to the plate alleviates that concern. Do this times six.
    [​IMG]


    Drilling some corresponding holes in the underside of the frame allowed for the nuts to slip up into it. All that was left was to weld everything in place… and that’s done too.
    [​IMG]


    I am done, done, done with the fabrication on the frame.
     
  15. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    But one last shot of a motor mount ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    A little more...
     

    Attached Files:

  17. koolkemp
    Joined: May 7, 2004
    Posts: 6,007

    koolkemp
    Member

    Looking great!!
     
  18. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    Since my last update, I tore into the rear to check the brakes and the condition of the gears. Upon doing so the main retaining pin broke, leaving its lower half in the depths of the differential with no way to get a drill straight at it and no way to remove the carrier without first removing the lower half of the stuck pin... A regular Catch 22:
    [​IMG]


    The quick and shoddy solution would be to screw the upper half of the bolt back in to prevent the broken piece from backing out of the hole. It took some time and effort, but eventually I got it out.
    [​IMG]


    I’ve cut the rear spring perches loose from the axle tube to allow the pinion angle to rotate and match the angle of the transmission output shaft. Once I get the engine and trans bolted into place, I’ll be able to determine exactly at what angle the pinion needs to be to avoid driveshaft vibrations. Once accomplished, I’ll weld the pads back onto the tubes and bolt the rear back in.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    On the front end we took some more 3/8″ plate and began fabricating the radius rod mounts. This axle was originally set under parallel front leaf springs so there’s already a flat mounting surface with bolt holes on each side. The first piece of plate was drilled for 1/2″ bolts to secure it to the axle. The second plate will be the mount for the front rod ends and will get welded to the base plate. Making the base plate alleviates welding to the cast axle.
    [​IMG]


    The most expedient method of shaping something this thick involved some creative use of the chop saw. Finish grinding and sanding followed. The top of the front notch is what gets welded to the baseplate. The rear two holes are for the upper and lower radius rod clevis bolts.
    [​IMG]


    Since there’s some triangulation involved, I mocked-up the rods with a couple of bolts through the front clevises and set them at the ball joint mounting brackets.
    [​IMG]



    For the leafspring, I recently purchased a short length of 1.25″ x .281″ wall DOM tubing to make shackle brackets. Like the radius rod brackets, these will get welded to the base plate.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    Somewhere along the way I got the bright idea that I could mount the spring behind the axle instead of on top of it as I originally planned. Here's a shot of all the pieces (both purchased and fab'd) that I planned to use:
    [​IMG]
    The DOM tubing's .281″ wall [center under spring] gives me an I.D. of 11/16″ which is the same O.D. as my 9/16″ I.D. bronze bushings [center front alongside the wet bolts].


    After (hopefully) many years of wear, the bronze bushings will be able to be pressed out and replaced, saving the actual mount from any wear.
    [​IMG]


    The down side to changing plans mid-way through was not only a lack of sufficient suspension-travel clearance between my bracket and the frame, but what's not shown is that after installation my crossmember is sitting smack on the tie-rod.
    [​IMG]


    I sat and stared at it for a half+ hour or more and could have gone down a "change this, change that" road, but I went back to my original plan instead.

    I cut the spring mount off the base plate and started over:
    [​IMG]

    The angled mount should allow enough room for the spring to flex without driving itself into the bracket or the base. If I find it does otherwise, I'll be cutting it back apart and raising the bracket some.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Once I was satisfied with fit and clearances, I pulled the pieces apart and welded everything solid.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    KiwiGlen and kiwijeff like this.
  21. 4444Design
    Joined: Aug 25, 2012
    Posts: 292

    4444Design
    Member

    interesting progress

    like your fab-work both on tail and front of your ride

    keep the updates comin'
     
  22. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

  23. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    ^^ I put the engine block and bellhousing on their mounts last night.

    Today I bolted the transmission to the bellhousing to get an angle off the output shaft.

    [​IMG]

    Tomorrow I should be able to transfer that angle to the rear pinion and weld the spring perches back on. Then I can measure for a driveshaft.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2014
  24. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    My concern wasn't so much about what the transmission output shaft angle was going to be as much as it was that the engine sat level with the frame at ride stance:
    [​IMG]


    On a fuel injected engine you can pretty much do what you want, but on a carbureted engine it's important that the carb sits level when all is said and done so the floats work properly.

    Note that you can’t always rely on leveling the engine block. Many times V-8 intake manifolds have a forward slanted carburetor mounting surface... but the intake on this inline 6 runs in the same plane as the deck. I checked long before removing the head.
    After getting the engine where I wanted it, I put an angle finder on the transmission output shaft and saw that it’s just a degree shy of vertical.
    [​IMG]


    If your transmission is pointing down one degree, you want the rear pointing up equally just the one degree. If the trans output is at 3, the rear needs to be at 3. Many people make the mistake of pointing the rear directly at the transmission output and are then confused when the thing vibrates beyond belief.
    [​IMG]


    With that done, I tacked the spring pads back onto the axle tube.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    The rear of the frame is still up on the jack but the wooden blocks are no longer needed under the differential. It’s pointing in the right direction on its own. I’ll pull the whole assembly out on my next set of days off to finish welding the perches before bolting it back where it belongs.
    [​IMG]



    The front is all bolted-up to the spring and supporting its own weight.
    [​IMG]
     
  26. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    I really have no idea why I painted the spindle separate from the drum. It will be completely covered by the wheel’s center cap. I guess it’s just underwear that’s fun to wear.
    [​IMG]
     
  27. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    I pulled the rear like I mentioned and welded the perches on solid:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    and bolted it back in:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Then I went to work on the clutch. The original (S-10) clutch and pressure plate are on the left. The stock '58 235 clutch and pressure plate are on the right. The 11" 14-spline disc I'll be using is in the center with the 235 flywheel.
    [​IMG]


    The original S-10 clutch (9-1/2" IIRC) would absolutely work with the 235 pressure plate, but you can get the extra friction surface area by going with the 11" so it only makes sense to use the bigger one:
    [​IMG]

    This picture compares the smaller S-10 disc with the 11" Astro Van:
    [​IMG]
     
  28. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,770

    fleet-master
    Member

    I love the look of this 36 Woob !! gona be cool when all done. As an aside, I clicked onto your ColoradoMelons link. Some great builds on there ...but Leigh's Story...WOW!! What an awesome gal!! you guys must be real bonafide positive people :) :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  29. racer_dave
    Joined: Nov 16, 2012
    Posts: 205

    racer_dave
    Member

    Hmmm, I was a bit surprised by this. Unless the 235 is going to be making a lot of horsepower, the 9 1/2" clutch would be more than enough to clamp firmly and you don't add another 15lbs of rotating weight by going with the smaller clutch. I'd think the reduction in rotating weight would make the acceleration/deceleration more snappy and fun to drive. Again, assuming the 235 is going to be under 300hp or so.
     
  30. Woob
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 353

    Woob
    Member
    from Falcon, CO

    Fleetmaster,

    I am inspired by her presence and humbled by your words.

    Thank you. [Reading your build now.]


    In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they are not.

    The same 235 flywheel and pressure plate are used whether one uses the 9-1/2" or the 11" clutch disc. The 9-1/2" weighs-in on the bathroom scale at ~ 3lbs. I'm not about to pull everything apart to weight the 11", but I can confidently say the additional 1.5" diameter of the larger one does not add anywhere near 15 lbs. :eek:

    I'll concede that even a nominal weight savings is a weight savings, but will sacrifice what I view as a relatively insignificant difference in rotating mass for the increased longevity & durability.

    If I really wanted to save weight, I would have had the massive truck flywheel machined. To each their own, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014

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