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chopped shoebox, proud metal on roof-live with it or is there a fix?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Johnny1290, May 30, 2012.

  1. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    I apologize for leaning on the expertise of hambers so much lately for this bodywork. I'm trying to knock out a few nagging trouble spots till I can think about primer.

    I hit this thing and it laughs. the roof flexes and nothing happens. I have insulation glued on I really don't want to remove(jute, etc) because it'll be a huge mess and a pain. so I can't get a dolly under the metal even if I could reach.

    Its about 3" of slightly proud metal in a sea of bondo above the middle of the rear window about a foot.

    Any thoughts or suggestions?

    Thanks gentlemen! I can't wait to primer this turkey and show it off!
     

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  2. joeb1934
    Joined: Feb 22, 2009
    Posts: 362

    joeb1934
    Member

    if you have access to a stud gun, you can use the gun (with no nail), heat the metal a bit, and hit it with some cold water. this will cause the metal to shrink a little, and firm it up at the same time. the problem you are having is from the metal being stretched, causing "oil canning". if i can make this work on a new honda door, you can make it work on a classic roof!
     
  3. big M
    Joined: Mar 22, 2010
    Posts: 709

    big M
    Member

    The high spot is generally caused by secondary damage [low spots] not having been removed. Check for low spots in the surrounding area, and remove them first. Then work the high spot down, it should cooperate better.


    It is entirely possible the metal is stretched, and should be shrunk before resuming. Hopefully not, as heat is generally used to shrink the metal.

    ---John
     
  4. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    yes that's what I mean, its a high spot.

    I actually have a shrinking disk somewhere but never felt comfortable to use it.

    You think if I heated it with a oxy/acetylelene torch it'd shrink? like a real tight spot across its length?
     

  5. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,976

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The best way to do it is grind out all your Bondo figure out what is messed up and metal work it back into shape.

    BUT, I have a feeling you don't want to do that....If not, I would stick with the choprods technique. Support it from underneath with a block of wood or something and use the sharp end of a pic hammer to make little diviots in the metal. Start from the outside and work your way towards teh center.

    When you are done, the high area will look a bit like the surface of a golf ball and the area will be lower than the rest of teh bondo. (don't smack the shit out of it and only make enough pecks to get it low) Now, yo ucan spread some more bondo on the area and sand it level with everything else.

    You know this isn't really the "right" way to do it, but in your case, the Better Low Than High School Of Bodywork will do just fine....

    Good luck, -Abone.
     
  6. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    thank you fellas for the help. Id love to fix the roof properly.

    I drive an hour each way to my rented garage and it still costs more than a car payment. I gotta get this thing outta here.
     
  7. Let me see if I understand this correctly. You just want to primer the roof and it's a sea of Bondo. There is a proud (high spot) that you know the right way to correct but choose not to do at this time, however you want advise on what else you can do to correct it. Is this correct?
     
  8. Da Tinman
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,227

    Da Tinman
    Member


    And the fact that he's afriad of the shrinking disc but willing to fire up the torch?

    Shrinking disc is much safer and easier to use on something like this than a torch. It wont create enough heat to set the interior on fire and is much easier to control the heat.

    No offense but dinging it with a hammer is not something I would ever consider.
     
  9. Ricola
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 100

    Ricola
    Member
    from MN

    I agree. Remove the filler, block it as close as you can get it, use a shrinking disc to shape it. Never turn it into a pile of crap with a pick hammer. That does nothing but ruin it.
     
  10. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    yep that's it, eat your heart out and be glad you're so superior and not in my situation.

    The correct fix is to cut off the roof and do it over. Stripping and metalworking this section, if I could afford the time and money(I can't), would result in the best piece of work on the vehicle.

    This is the car I foolishly bought from a hamber years ago whose been run off the board for dangerous, shoddy work.

    yes, I'm intimately aware its shitty workmanship, this is not news.

    I asked for some help to handle a bad situation.

    yes tinman, I've never used a shrinking disk before. I'm not scared it will explode, I don't know how to use it.

    anybody else wanna take a shot? I ain't gonna cry, go ahead.

    I can't afford my garage anymore and I'm almost out of equipment to sell to pay rent, so I've got a short timeframe.

    that's the long and the short of it. if I don't have to sell the car to pay bills I can fix it right at another time.
     
  11. agree, not all of us are as skilled as some of you claim to be. But then, they probably couldn't do brain surgery either...:D
     
  12. 10bucks
    Joined: Dec 9, 2009
    Posts: 121

    10bucks
    Member

    That shrinking disc is especially useful for what your trying to do. It's a low crown panel so little steps will go a long way. Worst thing that can happen is you over shrink it. If that happens little dings on dolly will bring it back up.
     
  13. Da Tinman
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,227

    Da Tinman
    Member


    Well you dont skilled by doing shit the wrong way. You get skilled fixing things other folks have done the wrong way.

    Perfect opportunity for the OP to get skills.:D
     
  14. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    thanks moparman and 10 bucks and the rest of y'all. I don't have a clue what I'm doing, ive never done bodywork before but today I learned all about oilcanning! :D now I gotta read up about how to fix it on my quarterpanel. maybe that shrinking disc will come in handy after all?!?

    edit: tinmans right, you learn to do by doing, so I hear.
     
  15. paulie_boy13
    Joined: Mar 1, 2005
    Posts: 269

    paulie_boy13
    Member
    from NC

    Johnny, Tinman has the right idea. I know your a competent guy. Read up on shrinking disk and go for it. You said yourself you already have one. You can do it! It's ALWAYS better and easier to learn the right way than to "UN-learn" bad habits later.
     
  16. Kona Cruisers
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,074

    Kona Cruisers
    Member

    Watch John the ghia guys video on shrinking with a shrinking disc on YouTube he's a great teacher! This is the process to fix what you have in front of you
     
  17. Da Tinman
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,227

    Da Tinman
    Member

    You can fix that roof without cutting anything and do it with hand tools and a shrinking disc.

    I've posted this one before and its a perfect example.

    [​IMG]

    Tornado dropped a tree on the garage, and then the garage collapsed on the car.

    [​IMG]

    Using a couple hammers, several dollies, a porta power and a shrinking disc,,,,

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    its all back to where its supposed to be. No cuts, patches or bondon't...

    Its not that hard, but it is time consuming. hammer/dolly the low spots, shrink the high spots. If you go to far use the other proccess to put em back.

    Kind of an oversimplification but thats all there is to it.

    I'm sick to death of hearing that it takes a gajillion dollars worth of tools and equipment to fix this kind of stuff. It doesnt, it just takes time and practice.

    Guess what, your getting practice while your fixing it and the more you do it the better you will get.

    If your van was parked near a river close to here I'd be glad to show you how.
     
  18. zep058
    Joined: Jan 9, 2007
    Posts: 599

    zep058
    Member

    ^^^holy godamn cow!

    And hit YouTube as suggested for tips on shrinking disk usage.

    Get in there and have a crack, you'll get it done.
     
  19. Boy did this go Krazzy. What I was trying you lean towards is what I view as the simplest, quickest, least involved fix until you can get around to doing it right. If it's already a Sea of Bondo and you don't want to take the insulation off the inside it would seem to me that another coat of Bondo to create a shape that pleases you would be acceptable and not create more work to be re-done in the future. I believe in K.I.S.S. even if it's not "right" in someone else's eyes. Geezzz guys, lighten up. And about that shrinking disc. I would never advise anyone to practice with one on something you want perfect. Find a piece of Crap and learn how to use the damn thing first.
    The Wizzard
     
  20. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    Honestly, some of you guys talk like everybody should come out of the womb knowing how to do this stuff.

    I've never done bodywork in my life and somehow I should know how to fix oil canning with a shrinking disc when I didn't even know what oil canning was?

    It's not hard to point out that a novice doesn't know what he's doing.

    Today I found my catwalk was tackwelded in at maybe 6 spots and held in place with bondo.

    |Where were these self appointed hamb police when the guy that did this work posted build threads and got slapped on the back?

    I spend 2 hours a day on drive time to get to my garage and back. I have A pillars that aren't welded to the roof on 3 sides, and I don't know what's under the bondo on the front.

    You think I should take a look at that or grind out the bondo on my roof to fix a bump?

    It is what it is. I gotta pick my battles. Garages are expensive in Los Angeles, I can't keep mine any longer, so I'm just doing the best I can.

    As always, I apprecaiate the help. If I can find where I put the damn shrinking disc, I'll give it a shot on the hood, maybe it can do something for me there.
     
  21. HamD
    Joined: Mar 3, 2011
    Posts: 298

    HamD
    Member

    From one guy who needs practice with the shrinking disc to another, please:
    Look forward to the knowledge you're gaining. I got to troubleshoot wiring last year due to a prior owner crimp & hide it mod to my car. I've a quarter panel worse than your roof I'm obsessed with fixing without bondo and one day will. One is someone elses fault, one is my fault. They both still are stuff I'd much rather fix myself than hand off o someone else.

    In L.A., you can get by with primer for a bit; sand it off later as it suits you; guide coat it as it suits you. Nothing wrong with driving with a less than "fully painted car" for cripesake.
     
  22. I am afraid to jump in on this one. That roof looks like a fucking mess as it is. Someone here said the "right way" would be to cut it off and start over. Probably true. You say the metal laughs at you. Is that becuase it is stretched or you're not bucking the back side? At any rate I think the fastest way out of this is cave and pave. But DO NOT hit that crown without a dolly behind it. You will chase it from here to next sunday. Take the insulation away and get a dolly in there. Gently pick the high spot down and pray it doesn't stretch. Shrinking metal with a wheel or a torch is an art. And you really need an experienced metal man to show you how. This is my $.02. Hope I dont get run out on a rail for it. Good luck.
     
  23. jonathan
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 390

    jonathan
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    I've got a hunch that says that spot is a weld. Maybe even where two panels are lapped over. That to me would explain why it wont go down when you tap on it. If so, a shrink disk wont do a thing and a torch may not either.

    I'd also guess that a skim coat of filler over the whole area and a light blocking would make it go away pretty easily.
     
  24. Kona Cruisers
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,074

    Kona Cruisers
    Member


    you have been a member for 6.5 years and 2750 post, and you expect hamb members to tell you what you want to hear and not the right way to fix what is quite frankly a cluster fuck? then why ask? you couldnt have posibly thought that anyone of us would just say, " beat it in with a hammer and fill her with mud." but since that what you want to hear....


    beat the "proud" section in and filler her with mud....:rolleyes:
     

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