Technical Chevy Transmission Shift patterns.

I need to buy a new shift mechanism for my 4 speed Saginaw transmission and I am looking at new Hurst units and I am wondering if a shifter that is speced for a Borg Warner Super T-10 and a Muncie 451 will have the same shift pattern as my Saginaw. I am not worried about mountings or linkages as I have changed all that to work with my current build anyways and can modify as needed I just need to make sure the shifter can be used to shift the Saginaw pattern.

The reason I ask is Hurst seems to have discontinued all of their Saginaw specific shift mechanisms (or are not allowing outside distributors to sell them) that don't include the shift handle and knob which I don't need. To get the Saginaw specific one from Hurst will cost me at least $450 CDN when all is said and done where I can get the other Hurst unit from an Canadian Distributor for $260 CDN all in so a pretty big savings. I am also a little curious what makes this unit almost $70 cheaper than other Hurst 4 speed shifters.
This is the one I am looking at getting from up here:
https://www.hurstshiftersonline.com...te-1963-67-BW-451-80-81-Muncie-454-50p297.htm

 

I put a lot of shifters in....There are small difference in some reverse levers and forward/ back holes in some. Generally speaking, VERY little difference in the shifters. You say shift pattern??? They all have a H pattern with reverse to the left up.... I messed with some that had weird reverse pattern..... just switch the lever on the trans up and bend the shift rod . get what you want.

 

If you have or can modify the linkage rods you currently have you've won the biggest battle. As to using the main Hurst shifter body on a Saginaw; to my knowledge they didn't have specific "shifters" just linkage kits. At least in the later years when they started breaking down components, offering just the linkage in application specific packaging.
Some have intermediate mounting plates, some mount directly to the tailhousing, some are engineered for cars with consoles, some without consoles.
Not clear on what you meant by "other" Hurst shifter but keep in mind the Hurst "Indy" shifters were always priced less than the Hurst "Competition Plus" line.....for a reason, the "Indy" was a somewhat less engineered shifter than the Comp Plus.

 

Thanks for the replies guys. @DDDenny I guess my question is what makes the shifter I posted (which Hurst labels as a comp plus shifter) $181 and this one $249 which it says is for a Chevelle with a Saginaw?
https://www.hurstshiftersonline.com...Mechanism-1968-72-Chevelle-Saginaw-50p812.htm

 

There is a big difference! One has been in inventory for 5 years! buy the damn thing before its gone ! the new ones are $$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

I hadn't looked at the link but it shows an extended lever that I don't consider "generic" in terms of all the Hurst units I've bought. The thing about mfg's is they can't assume an individual is capable of even the simplest tasks let alone making mods to products so I'm gonna assume that lever is shaped like that for those two applications shown.
Keep in mind, the Saginaw has all three levers on the side cover whereas the Muncie and B-W T-10 has the reverse lever off the extension housing. This meens the reverse arm will need to be longer for the Saginaw, the mount used (or not) will dictate any bends required in the shift rods to line up and clear everything.

 

The $181 one is the one I can get for $260 Canadian which is probably exactly what I would pay with the exchange rate not including shipping and all the nonsense that goes with it so it's a good deal.

Yeah I assumed that as well just didn't make sense to me that it would be so much cheaper when it looks like that is about the only difference. I would be cutting up the forward facing lever and moving it to a vertical position like the second one I posted anyways as that is how I have my linkage set up currently. I am replacing a POS ITM shifter that I got with the transmission that looks like the Chevelle one I posted.

 

I can tell you that this kit (that I am selling / shameless plug) works with the second shifter that you posted. Not the shifter with the funky arm that sticks out like a sore thumb.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/hurst-saginaw-installation-kit.1134521/

 

Thanks. As mentioned linkage and mounting are not really a concern, I will adapt as needed,I just need a decent shifter that I can use on a Saginaw.

 

I'd buy Chucky's kit for the 100 bucks before anyone else did.
That mounts most any actual Hurst shifter to the Saginaw 4 speed and has the correct no hassle linkage.
The big difference between the aftermarket Hurst Competition plus shifters is the shift arm length and shape. That is why you have to have one for a Saginaw or muncie. The bracket in the kit that Chucky offered is what will bolt any of them to the trans. without that or a similar bracket you can't bolt the "made for the Saginaw" shifter to the trans anyhow.
Handle you buy to fit your specific vehicle and seat.
That's why Hurst went to the multi package deal. You don't have to have a warehouse full of complete for a single application shifters that only fit specific applications.

 

There is quite a bit of info on competition plus shifters mixed in this pfd including shift handles http://www.loco4fomoco.com/HURST.pdf

 

Thanks I do appreciate you taking the time to reply but again I have zero concerns of what it will or will not bolt up to as far as mounting or linkages as I am not mounting it to the traditional spot on the transmission and have modified the linkage to work with my needs. I just needed to verify that the way the levers will work is the same for the transmissions Hurst listed with the shifter and a Saginaw. I am still a little uncertain what differs between shifters that justifies a $60 price difference in what looks like essentially the same unit with a different shaped lever but at this point that answer may not be available.

Sorry I should have posted this earlier to avoid some of the confusion but couldn't find the picture. This is what I am doing and needing to replace the ITM unit in the picture.

 

Thanks so I assume the reason for the differences in shifter model number suggestions would be the handle and the differences in the levers that would correspond with specific mounting applications in different cars?

 

This is the shifter body in my Chevelle.
This one doesn't have the funny shaped reverse liver like the corvette shifter.
Not sure if the number on this will help or not.

 

sorry here's the picture.

 

Thanks. A quick look online looks similar to the one that Hurst lists for the Chevelle with the Saginaw and looks like the ITM I have. That would be the easiest to use for me but it's going to cost at least $200 more than what I would pay for the Corvette one with the funny lever so if the only difference is the lever it makes no sense to me to pay $200 more to save cutting up and re welding one lever.

 

Cutting and welding a shift lever my be tricky.
At least you won't be banging reverse.

 

I do have a T 10 on the bench now, and it uses the same shifter body as the one in my Chevelle.
Hard to imagine someone up your way doesn't have a shifter for sale.

 

Hurst no doubt has paired down their mfg/inventory to the shifters that sell best, the non-generic ones that have limited sales figures applied to them will not be made in large quantities and need to be priced accordingly. The shifter with the extended lever may only be in the lowest ten percent of production and/or sales.

 

Posting that mess in your first post would have saved several of us an hour or two of our time trying to find the pieces you should need if you were mounting it correctly. You wasted a lot of people's time by not doing it.
Any used competition plus 4 speed shifter with arms that drop straight down will work you don't need a specific shifter . Most have a bolt on handle and you an fab the handle to fit. Hurst sells a rebuild kit with everything except the shift arms and housing for about 110 bucks that will rebuild a 50 buck swap meet shifter to new.

 

You are probably right. I just always think that stuff that doesn't sell as quickly or is more specialized is usually more expensive. It's just weird that the company up here only carry this and a Mopar one and have said the majority of the others are no longer available to them and when I look on sites like Summit etc most show no longer available for the other models that would work for me.

 

I explained right from the start that I didn't care what it mounted to if you decided not to read that part that is on you not me. My question was about shift pattern not what the shifter would mount to. $110 bucks will end up over $200 for me by the time I pay exchange and get it up here so I will have paid more to rebuild a swap meet shifter than just buy the new one.

 

In my least sarcastic voice...........if you put in some overtime selling more body filler and typing less you could afford to buy the shifter at the US rate plus the tarrif.
Hell, you could even afford to buy that linkage kit from Chucky.
Besides, you would be helping our economy.

 

I like your shifter mount! I did the very same thing in my model A and sagi trans.

 

LOL I can afford the other I just don't see the need to throw $200 away and line UPS's pockets to save cutting off one tab and welding it back on in a different direction and finding a $50 used shifter up here is laughable ( guys are asking $120 for the piece of crap ITM I already have) so I would be into it for way more than the $260 for a rebuild. Thanks for all your help much appreciated.

 

Did you review the 3 pages that Hurst has on line? https://www.hurstshiftersonline.com...m?pageStyle=h&ProdSort=2&page=1&idCategory=50 Also can we get a picture of the reverse lever on your current shifter? Something tells me it been shortened and new pivot hole was made?

 

Thanks, yes I did looks like lots of subtle differences in shifter position and lever shapes being the most obvious changes. I just wasn't sure if they would all work in the same shift pattern or not but it sounds like they do. For some reason the majority of the part numbers they list there are only available from them and not through their distributors. If I can get it from a distributor up here I would prefer that because it makes the whole thing easier, cheaper and way less hassle if anything happens to go wrong or doesn't work and I need to return.

I don't have a picture of my shifter handy but the shift levers on mine look almost identical to this so I don't think they have been modified but I may be wrong:

 

I built a 57 chevy with a Saginaw 4 speed and used the Summit brand shifter. It worked fine and was reasonable as far as price. Looked like a copy of a Hurst.

 

I'll just say this. I've never bought a shifter that belonged to a given application. That said, yes they all work the same. It's only the ratio or length of each lever from the pivot point (upper mounting bolt) to the shift rod per 1-2, 3-4, R. Since you have a shifter that has the ratio that works. One answer would be modify a shifter? New or Good Used, your choice.

 

Thank you! This was really the info I was looking for. Very much appreciated.