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chevy ll 4 banger ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lilbill, Nov 24, 2006.

  1. Promotive
    Joined: Nov 5, 2009
    Posts: 25

    Promotive
    Member

    Back in the '70s my dad built a 153 and put in his '59 Corvette! He built the mounts so it would bolt in and not destroy the car. He also ran a T-50 5 speed from an early Monza, and a Clifford header. He left the stock intake and ran a modified Holley carb. We took the car to Bloomington Vette show and got 26 MPG. It was fun to drive.
     
  2. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,611

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    There is a lot of contradiction and misinformation in this thread. Some of it is mine. The 153 & 181 rods are the same length at 5.7". The difference is bearing size. 153 is 2.0 and the 181 is 2.1. The 151 rod is 6.0" in length and uses the 2.1 bearing. All use the same wrist pin. At least some 181 and 151 rods are 0.094 bottom end width (The rest are 1.030) the same as the V8s but I don't know if they are off set like the V8s. I think the narrow rods are used with the crank that has the one piece main seal. Erson is grinding my cam now.
     
  3. youngster
    Joined: Feb 26, 2006
    Posts: 533

    youngster
    Member Emeritus
    from Minnesota

    I was told the only difference between the 153 and 181 was a 1/4" longer stroke. I used the 153 pistons and rods in mine, ran fine. Did I miss something?

    Ron
     
  4. OldCrow
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 134

    OldCrow
    Member

    Never owned a Chevy 4, but I've owned 12 Fieros (still own 2 with V-8 swaps) and if the 4 cyl Fiero has any similarity to the Chevy (it does not), I don't want a Chevy. the Fiero 4 is a total turd that was, in fact, the reason the Fiero died on the vine. the "iron Duke" would pitch rods out the side of the block and the resulting oil caught on fire when it hit the cat. Fire-arrows wasn't just a random nickname.

    <press any key to continue>,
    Russ
     
  5. Model A Vette
    Joined: Mar 8, 2002
    Posts: 1,070

    Model A Vette
    Member

    I've had both, a '62 ChevyII with a 153 and an Indy Pacecar '84 Fiero with 151 and 4 spd.
    I never had an engine problem with either but I suspect the "Iron Duke" in the Fiero would have had problems if I had had it longer. It had at least 4 recalls done to it by a Pontiac dealer. Most were done to make it appear that they had increase the oil capacity. They put in a dipstick that was marked higher and changed to a bigger (actually a 6 cyl) oil filter.
    Then they changed the dipstick AND tube that was about 30" long!
    They also covered several engine compartment components with high temp silver tape.
    The 153 was a cut down 6cyl design and was pretty strong.
    The 151 was a Pontiac redesign and I think they skimped in a few places.
    A friend had a Buick Somerset with a 151 and 5 spd. It had a couple of problems and eventually the fiber cam gear gave up. It was just to costly to fix as the car was pretty old by then even though it had low mileage.
    A lot of Fieros failed because of lack of maintenance.
    I had a distant young relative who never checked the oil and didn't understand what the oil idiot light meant. Once it came on the engine stopped. Once it cooled off she drove it home! She dumped it in a few days.
     
  6. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,840

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Just me thinking out loud, being that it's pretty easy to get 1 h.p. per cu. in. out of a sbc, is it unreasonable to expect close to that out of 1 of these little 4's someone enlighten me please

    dave
     
  7. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,330

    c-10 simplex
    Member


    Also, on a relate note, how much boost can a 181 take before cracking?


    Alright, i'll tell you what i really want:

    What do i need to do to the 181 engine so that i can put say 20lbs (or more) of boost into it so that it has gobs of power and have it live? In other words, repeated 1/4 mile passes with an indefinite time period equivalent to a stock 181 before cracking or rebuild?


    Money is not really a problem and i'm not an "engine person" so i was hoping you could tell me. Getting a custom crank from someone such as hank the crank should not be too much a problem (i hope?).
     
  8. WEBSTER
    Joined: May 6, 2006
    Posts: 60

    WEBSTER
    Member Emeritus
    from Tacoma, Wa

    I had a Chev II engine in my 29 roadster for many years and had it equipped
    with a Ansen 8 port head. Sold the head, but still have the engine, with a fresh stock head. If interested please pm me or call 253-759-8827 for info.
    Have a marine valve cover and and Clifford 4r bbl intake that is included. It makes a great engine for "light" rods, not so much for the Chev II it came in. Terry
     
  9. dawford
    Joined: Apr 25, 2010
    Posts: 498

    dawford
    Member

    "
    Just me thinking out loud, being that it's pretty easy to get 1 h.p. per cu. in. out of a sbc, is it unreasonable to expect close to that out of 1 of these little 4's someone enlighten me please

    dave "

    Dave,

    The reason that these engines are harder to get 1 hp per cu/in. is that the V8 has a crossflow head.

    The intakes in the valley and the exhaust on the out sides of the engine.

    These engines can make that kind of hp but it isn't easy or cheap to do it.

    Some have converted other heads that are crossflow and I think that there is someone who makes a head to do this but they are expensive.

    I have a 181 engine still in a boat that I may put in one of my stock bodied Model A Fords but I am building a few Mercruiser 224 cu/in 4 cylinder big blocks that have crossflow 460 Ford aluminum heads on them.

    The 460 aluminum heads are available for about $500.00 and have 2.19 intake and 1.76 exhaust valves.

    These engines with the Mercruiser QuadraJet and manifolds and the aluminum heads will produce about 220/230 hp without any other internal modifications.

    They have an aluminum block that weighs 75 lbs.

    The Mercruiser big block 4 is called the 470 or 3.7 liter Mercruiser.

    The 140 hp Mercruiser that I have still in the boat needs a rebuild and an intake and exhaust system because the marine manifolds are not really usable for auto use.

    I imagine that once converted to a car that they will produce about 150 hp.

    The reason that I add 10 hp to the 140 hp rating is that in a car they can be run up to a higher rpm than they can running in a boat.

    In a boat they are running against water resistance that is equal to running up hill all day long.

    For that reason Mercury Marine engineers made them pretty bullet proof in their stock configuration.

    That is the reason that I do not make any radical modifications to them.

    In a light weight car they actually run easier than they do in a boat and the ocassional run up to a high rpm isn't going to hurt them any.

    I am looking for an intake and exhaust manifold for the 181 if anyone has one for sale.

    I have included a picture of the intake side of the 470 Mercruiser block and head for those who are interested. You can see why the make so much more hp with the cross flow head and 43 more cu/in. The lighter weight also helps.
    .
     

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  10. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,840

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Thanks for the reply.dawford. So ,starting w/a 153, raising the compression to 9/9.5 to 1, a cam upgrade, 8 port merc head,header & intake upgrade.. is it your opinion that 120/130 h.p. is doable?

    dave
     
  11. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,142

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    Wow, I've been messing with the late 151 Duke, because of all the Pontiac Super Duty stuff out there, but that Ford motor sure seems cost effective...
     
  12. dawford
    Joined: Apr 25, 2010
    Posts: 498

    dawford
    Member

    dave,

    I am no expert on the 2.5 and 3.0 engines but have spent 3 years researching the 3.7 Mercruiser.

    However I would think that since the 2.5 Mercruiser produced 120 hp with the 6 port head it would be reasonable to think that you could get an 8% increase in hp with an 8 port head higher compression and the Mercruiser cam.

    I purchased the boat, the trailer with the engine and outdrive for $250.00 just to get the trailer for a car hauler.

    The engine has water in the oil but is not frozen up.

    I am currently building a 3.7 Mercruiser that had water in the block and we found that all it would have needed to run was a new head gasket.

    I put aluminum heads on these engines so the head will be replaced but the only other thing that we are doing to in is a light hone of the cylinders, and new rings and bearings just to avoid any future regrets..

    You might consider looking for a complete boat not running with the 3.0 engine.

    You can then recondition the trailer, Spray can and wheel bearing grease. and sell it and the outdrive for what you paid for the hole rig.

    Then junk the hull and have a free engine. Rebuild kits sell on ebay for about $300.00 to $400.00 dollars if you need to rebuild it at any rate you would get the Head.

    I don't know when the 8 port head was introduced but that would be what to look for, that and a fresh water engine that wasn't left in the water but was trailered.

    I am looking at another 3.0 tomorrow that I might buy just for the parts.

    If you don't have any engine you might consider the 3.7 and get 220/230hp.
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  13. youngster
    Joined: Feb 26, 2006
    Posts: 533

    youngster
    Member Emeritus
    from Minnesota

    The cross flow head was made by Ansen for roundy round cars.

    Ron
     
  14. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,840

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Youngster, are any of those[ansen] still in existence ? dave
     
  15. bigblock352
    Joined: Dec 26, 2009
    Posts: 28

    bigblock352
    Member
    from Florida

    You wont have any problem making that kind of power from the 153. I am using the stock head with mods(1.94 intake, 150 exhaust) and some smoothing, shaved .030, zero decked with flat tops and custom ground comp cam, clifford intake and header with a weber carb. Runs GREAT and sounds amazing in my chevy II, not to mention with a 5 speed I am getting 28 MPG mixed driving. Fun little engine.
     

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  16. youngster
    Joined: Feb 26, 2006
    Posts: 533

    youngster
    Member Emeritus
    from Minnesota

    I know of 2 but they are not for sale ... yet. Check with the dirt track crowd in your area, ya never know what might pop up.

    Ron
     
  17. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,142

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    There was one on ebay last week, I don't think it sold, so I'd watch for a relisting...
     
  18. Model A Vette
    Joined: Mar 8, 2002
    Posts: 1,070

    Model A Vette
    Member

    I wonder if the crossflow head from a '79 or '80 Iron Duke would bolt onto a 153?
    Anyone know for sure?
     
  19. Bearing Burner
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 893

    Bearing Burner
    Member
    from W. MA

    No a Pontiac head will NOT bolt on a Chevy 153. However I believe it could be made to fit with welding and machining.
     
  20. Just got a hopped up 181. Going to re-ring it pretty soon. Looking to sell the Clifford intake it cme with and got to order or find a good cam for it. Plans are to put it in a lil modified one day. Does anyone know a part number for stock flat top pistons for one of these?I heard 302 Z pistons fit?

    -Shiny
     
  21. Lobucrod
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 4,122

    Lobucrod
    Alliance Vendor
    from Texas

    I picked up a rusted out '70 postal jeep the other day just for the Chevy 4 banger and p-glide. Pulled the engine out and put it on a test stand and got it running. Sounds like a good one. No bad noises, no smoke, 40 lbs oil pressure, good compression. Now I'm looking for a real light weight car to put it in. With gas rapidly approaching $4 it ought to be fun, especially with a T5 behind it.
     
  22. youngster
    Joined: Feb 26, 2006
    Posts: 533

    youngster
    Member Emeritus
    from Minnesota

    The Ansen side cover I had already had a relief in it for a stock dizzy. I would guess it had to be openned up for any sort of aftermarket unit.

    Ron
     
  23. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,142

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    There is a Fontana Chevy 2 head on ebay right now if anyone is interested... the Ansen head has not come up again...
     
  24. mahalic
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 8

    mahalic
    Member

    One thing that is important with the153 is you can't over gear them. The torque drops off drastically when lugged. If the stock 368 gears are changed to 4 to 1's they performed much better and didn't mind running down the road at 3500RPM. These are stock engines and if you install a cam with to much lift it gets even more important to keep the R's up.

    My initial installation of a 181 in my 30 Conv will be with a chevy to Ford V8 trans and stock Model A rear equiped with 4 to 1 diff. Eventually it will get an S10 5sp that is sitting on the garage floor and an eight inch ford rear end.

    The 181 engine as has been discussed in several posts is difficult to equip with manifolds. Cliffords does not stock any of that stuff for the 181 engine anymore. I have found a guy in Idaho that makes an exhaust plate to fit and it will accomadate the 153 intake. Hopefully I will be able to attach a couple of pictures showing this set up. His name is ted Stouder and his email address is Ted@northrim.net. He makes these in his business shop when there is time. Very high quality. You will have to finish the exhaust pipes yourself.

    The plate goes on the head with a 181 gasket then a part of a 153 gasket between the plate and the intake. 100_0751.jpg

    100_0752.jpg

    100_0302.jpg
     
  25. mahalic
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 8

    mahalic
    Member

    Who ever it was that tried to contact me regarding the plate as mentioned above, I was not able to attach your message. You can contact me at bentspoks@yahoo.com.
     
  26. mahalic
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 8

    mahalic
    Member

    Has anybody tried to turbo charge a 153 or 181 engine? Has anybody installed an automatic trans to one of these engines? I picked up a turbo from a Subaru 2.5 which should be about the correct size and was thinking about hooking it up to my 181. It also seems a turbo would work quite well with an automatic because the exhaust output would be constant while accerating rather than off and on with a manual trans. I also have a 700R4 and torque converter sitting on the shelf.

    The auto trans conversion brings up the question of internal or external balance so any comments would be appreciated.
     
  27. Lobucrod
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 4,122

    Lobucrod
    Alliance Vendor
    from Texas

    Chevrolet installed Powerglides behind the 153. Turbo 350, 400, 200R4, 700R4 will bolt right up to it. Use an internally ballanced 153 tooth V8 flywheel. Joy of Chevy.....interchangability.
     
  28. mahalic
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 8

    mahalic
    Member

    I sort of suspected that was the case. Would love to hear from someone that has had something good to say about the performance with an automatic.

    Am I correct in assuming a flex plate with no added weights is for an enternally balanced engine? I'm not sure I would not use the 700R4 unless I went with the turbo.
     
  29. 1929CDAN
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 345

    1929CDAN
    Member

  30. mahalic
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 8

    mahalic
    Member

    What does btt mean?
     

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