so im putting a 425 buick nailhead with a chevy 4 speed in my 50 ford. I have access to a saginaw 4 speed, but all i heard was bad news about these saginaws. My car will have skinny bias plys, therefore I am not expecting to get any real traction. the motor will have about 460 pounds of torque. With that amount of torque, will a saginaw hold up? I dont plan on racing, however I know once in a while i'll beat on it. I'll be putting in a rear with a ratio between 3.00 and 3.50. Should I keep looking for a t10 or muncie? or use a saginaw?
Every time someone asks this question, they get hit with a barrage of "Saginaws suck" replies. HOWEVER.......here are some good points about them: 1. They're much cheaper than either a Muncie or T-10; you can afford to have a spare. 2. They had at least four different ratio spreads, making it easy to custom tailor your transmission to your rear end ratio. 3. If you really luck out later and buy a Muncie or T-10 at a giveaway price, it's a very easy swap to go to either one if you're already set up for a Saginaw.
I agree with Heathen. I've looked into this same issue and found varied opinions all over the place, ranging from "A mouse jumped onto the input shaft of my Saginaw and it broke" to "They use a Saginaw in the Space Shuttle and it hasn't broken yet." My two cents: Give the Saginaw a shot. With that much torque and a heavy car, it will likely break if you abuse it, but it will last in normal driving. If it breaks, upgrade to a Muncie or Super T-10.
my boss had one behind a 383 Chevy in a Camaro for years. that transmission took more abuse than should be allowed by law. one tough transmission.
There's a Saginaw behind the 350 in my '49 F1. Been running reliably for years and it's been beat on pretty good.
I would definitely throw the saginaw in there and drive. It's not just going to explode on its own. If you beat the shit out of it, and try to break it.... You will. If you drive it with some respect for what it is, it will last a long time. Rev it up and dump the clutch and it will chunk teeth. They won't last like that. You can drive it hard, but try not to wheel hop it. The Muncie and T-10's are tough, but I have broken them too. You can just beat them a little harder.
I built a V8 Vega back in the day and it had a Saginaw 4 speed behind the 4 banger. Dropped in a .030 over 327 with double hump heads and a solid lifter cam and hooked it up to a stock width 4.10 posi 12 bolt rearend. hijackers, N50's on cragars and thrashed that little guy forever. Even bolted on a set of 10" slicks and dropped a 150 horse shot NOS nitrous system on it and the little Saginaw took it all the time i owned that car. Use the Saginaw..... I think that it is a great little transmission.
Ive heard the same about saginaws, I just dropped one into my pickup and I love it. I've even been told by a couple people that they like the saginaws over the muncie..I'm not sure about all of that but I'm sure you'll be able to run the saginaw with little problem.
In 1979 a friend and I both put Saginaws in our trucks, we were running 396s....mine lasted about one summer, what with the drag racing and other abuse I gave it. His is still working fine. I'd give it a try, it's not like changing transmissions is a big pain with the Chevys
Two more points---yes, on paper, both Muncies and Super T-10s are better than a Saginaw; that being said, I've seen just as many of them lying on someone's garage floor with gear teeth falling out of them as anything else. NO standard transmission is going to live indefinitely through daily abuse. Second, a friend blew the Muncie in his '68 Chevelle and came to me looking for a transmission. I didn't have any Muncies for sale at the time and, as it was his only car and time was of the essence, he bought a Saginaw from me to get his car going. A few weeks later, he was showing off for the troops one night by bolting a pair of slicks on the rear and pulling holeshots with it. He blew the 12 bolt out of it that night, but the Saginaw remained intact. The moral of the story is either that Saginaws aren't as bad as some people think they are, or that if you think that you've got to drive like Don Garlits in the final round at all times, your car's going to be on the disabled list more often than not.
The good points have already been mentioned, but I'll reiterate: (1) drop in replacements for the venerable muncie. (2) They're cheap (3) Lots of different gear rations available. And I'll add (4) Easy enough to rebuild I've got one going in behind my mildly built 350, I don't expect any issues.
As I recall, a problem with them under heavy use was the use of a thrust washer against the case that would gall up and cause problems. An early '80s issue of Popular Hot Rodding had an article about replacing the washer with a Torrington bearing to eliminate the weak spot.
Got one in my Lark with a 383. Before it was in the Lark it was in my 32 with a 392. Before that it was in the same 32 with a 12 port 302 GMC. Sill togeather. But I don't drive like I used to.
Yeah,there's a wavy spring washer used instead of shims between first gear thrust washer and the rear bearing on the mainshaft.The spring washer fails and the gears get knocking around.A thrust washer is thick and looks like a slim Torrington bearing might fit. I' ve been told by a few pro rebuilders that the 2.56 first gear version is the most rugged because of gear tooth counts.They say 300 hp is max if you beat on it. I had a pile of Saginaws I cleaned up and sold in the last 15 years.Seen worn engagement teeth,many bad front bearings, but never one that was blown bad.
I have used them for years there a good trans the bad thing is the Rev boss is casted to the houseing inside if you abuse in Rev they will brake off and thats the end of the deal, other then that I have used them in 300 HP motors with no issues. there not m-20-21-22 or t-10 but there 3/4 the price. I used one in my Nova I would leave the line at 4500 Rpm and never broke one.
Put in the "Sag". Have beat the "Hell "out of mine with a built" 355 chevy with 2X4s and NEVER had any problems i 5 years !!!!!
I had one in my 39 Ford for 13 years and beat the crap out of it, in this rebuild I replaced it with another as the car was in a flood and the gear oil was like mud. After draining it it looked OK but decided to change it out. Unless you are a complete AH with it it will last.
Can't say anything about a T-10 as I have never had one. Muncies and Saginaws, a few. Weak part of a Muncie is the case. The cluster gear shaft hole at the front of the case can elongate. This can cause the cluster gear to move up and down and or cause a fluid leak at the front of the transmission. Second, the main drive bearing hole can also elongate and the case at the bolt holes for the bearing retainer can crack radially. I've had both of these failures as I have blown up a few of these since 1968. You know when you have screwed up a case when you disassemble the transmission, set the main case on the bench with the main drive gear facing the floor and the cluster shaft falls out of the front of the case. First of all, the cluster shaft is pressed in from the rear, the shaft diameters are slightly different, front is slightly smaller, and second, when it falls out from the front of the case under it's own weight, that's a oh s*** occurrence for sure. Also, a lot of thrashing on a Muncie with a heavy car, like a full size 60's Pontiac pulling a lot of hole shots can twist the output splines on the mainshaft. I still have one in my garage from my '66, twisted almost a quarter inch. It does take a while for that to happen, but it will some day. Saginaws, well, the good points, stronger case, multiple first gear ratios, Muncie only has two, 2.20 and 2.52. IIRC Saginaws have about 5 or so. Bad points, they do not shift as smooth as a Muncie, my opinion. The gears are narrower as all forward and reverse gears are contained in the main housing, unlike a Muncie that has the reverse in the tail housing. Doesn't seem to affect durability. A friend for years thrashed one in his 350 Nova hard. I know of another that has never been touched, well over 100K on it in a 72 Chevelle with a 350 also.
I did a lot of checking here and with other folks, and went with a 4 speed Saginaw... As most have said here, or are alluding to, is that they are just fine up to ~400hp or so...AND will hold up well if you DON'T rev up the engine and DUMP the clutch....That will break them soon. Also had a few folks tell me that they shifted easier, but can't confirm that. I am very pleased with mine....can burn rubber if I choose, but not out dumpin' the clutch on it either.... I have the two ring with a 3:11 first gear ratio, and a 3:36 rear end. Works real well for what I wanted.....a good driver with a little attitude on occasion... Good luck. Cheers.............
Traded my last Muncie for a tri power set up, now I am looking for a solid Saginaw box to replace it. I have stopped trying to pull wheel stands.
That saginaw would be good in a four banger Vega (thats what they came with) Stick with looking for a T10 or a Muncie, can't go wrong with those...
Stripped 2 teeth off the input and 3 off the countergear in a bone stock 78 Camaro with a 305 2 barrel back about '83/84. Drove it like grandma, too. Replaced it with a Muncie, which was fine till the 305 ate the cam.
The fact that some Vegas had Saginaw four speeds doesn't make them a "Vega transmission". Saginaws had already been around for five years when the Vega was released, and after the engineers found out that even a Vega would chew up the Opel four speeds that the early cars came with, they replaced it with the Saginaw, since they were available.
Use the sag! I have one in a 52 Chev with a tri-power 322 Buick. 20+ years on it with no trouble. As said before, don't dump the clutch with a heavy car. Another advantage with the sag is that you can add the O.D. from a sag 3spd without any problem. The one in my Chav has one, just lock out the O.D. if you are going to drive it hard. The O.D. is for crusing anyway! Jim
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