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Check your NUTS boys and girls! Early Ford Wishbone fastener TECH!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SamIyam, May 14, 2013.

  1. I was mocking up the wishbone in The Drag Rod and when I went to bolt it to the front axle, I noticed a little problem.

    I was using the tapered castelated nuts that came with the perch pin bolts. I got this stuff in a trade, but recall that I had a similar problem with the NUTS that I purchsed from a reputable Early Ford parts dealer...

    So I figured I'd share this info with you all.

    The clue that something was wrong came when I went to tighten the NUTS. They would get tight, loose, tight, loose, tight, loose as you turned them... nearly impossible to tighten!

    After an attempt to tighten... if you remove the NUT, the corners of where the hex meets the taper will look like this:

    [​IMG]

    Not good.

    So I took one of my handy dandy angle finders... a 60 degree one at that... and measured the wishbone.

    [​IMG]

    Then, when I measured the NUT... it came up different!

    [​IMG]

    Come to find out, the NUTS have a 45 degree angle on them!

    [​IMG]

    The solution is to put the NUTS in a lathe, and turn a 60 degree angle on them... or, make some washers with the 60 degree angle on them.... (Like I am going to do. Tech article to come)

    What I would REALLY like to see is a pair of lower shock mounts.

    I am wondering if they have the correct 60 degree angle nub going into the wishbone... and then the correct 45 degree angle to accept the castelated/tapered NUT.

    Anyone have a pair they can check??

    Also... this info can hopefully help other people with other things... like lug NUTS on race cars at Bonneville...

    ;)

    Stay Tuned!

    Sam
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2013
  2. HellsHotRods
    Joined: Jul 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,336

    HellsHotRods
    Member

    Just by looking at the nuts, one could tell they are the wrong angle/cut. If you turn them in a lathe, they'll end up shorter (sitting lower in the mount) than Henry's original.

    Henry Ford used a heavy castle nut for the perch blots, only one company reproduces them today, as correct copies.

    There are still plenty of original perch nuts out there, they were used through a number of years. Nothing beats an original.

    my .02
     
  3. 1950heavymetal
    Joined: Sep 9, 2008
    Posts: 323

    1950heavymetal
    Member

    HA!! That title made me laugh! Plus you measured your nuts a couple times!

     
  4. Who sells the right NUTS??

    I bought a pair from a big name Ford parts place... and, they are wrong. Also, when you buy Hencho En China perch pin bolts... and the NUTS those guys sell, they come with the wrong nuts.

    I guess my point is, things like this are often over looked... and not everyone has protractor eyes... so, make it a point to measure/check things if they don't seem right!

    Sam
     
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  5. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,776

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    Good Lord! Isn't it amazing that these have been sold when they are so obviously wrong? I'm guessing the overseas (most likely Chi-Com) maker just decided it was cheaper to sell a standard castellated tapered nut to the vendor rather than making up the "oddball" OEM style Ford specil nut.
     
  6. HellsHotRods
    Joined: Jul 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,336

    HellsHotRods
    Member

    Early Ford Store and CW Moss have the early originals.
    f
    Found these on the evil auction site:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. There ya' go! The man's got NUTS!
     
  8. Thanks Sam! good catch for the rest of us to pay attention to!
     
  9. Thanks for the info I will be checking my nuts
     
  10. Good reminder, thanks
     
  11. TexasSpeed
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    Posts: 4,610

    TexasSpeed
    Member

    Never thought aftermarket perch nuts would be like that.. Good stuff to keep in mind. Thanks Sam.
     
  12. Does anyone have a lower shock mount they can check?

    It might be that those aftermarket shock mounts have a 60 degree taper into the wishbone, and then a 45 for the nut.

    Also, what about aftermarket bat wings?

    Sam
     
  13. NortonG
    Joined: Dec 26, 2003
    Posts: 2,117

    NortonG
    Member Emeritus

    I like that you posted this.

    When I first installed my perch pins, I noticed my NUTS didn't seat correctly!

    That evil company Spee****... Sells the tapered washers I believe.

    I was just going to make some myself.
     
  14. My nut's haven't been tight since I was a teenager!:eek::D HRP
     
  15. h.i.
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 409

    h.i.
    Member
    from denver

    Well, that's shitty. Good catch! I can check lower mounts tonight, but I'm sure someone will beat me to it.
     
  16. My lower shock mounts have a flat surface and a flat nut to go on it.
     
  17. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    I'm wondering that if the shock mounts don't have the taper, if that's why so many you see are turned and not perpendicular to the axle?
     
  18. Some of the perches are made without the keyway. I have a set that I had to use a die grinder to make a key slot in it. Perhaps those you see turned are ones that people didn't bother to fit a keyway into.
     
  19. Really good info - but I really don't want to meet the girl who needs to check her nuts
     
  20. Search Dog
    Joined: Oct 30, 2012
    Posts: 112

    Search Dog
    Member
    from Western CT

    I just so happen to have some of those mounts.

    It appears the inner surface where the nut hits is FLAT -- not tapered at all!

    [​IMG]

    The outer taper looks to be 45*, but it is irrelevant since the mount taper never meets the wishbone taper. The flats of the mount bottom on the outside surface of the wishbone long before the taper contacts anything.
    [​IMG]

    Note that these are the mounts with the keyway. Of course, they don't come with a keyway OR the proper mounting nut!
     
  21. 6-71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2005
    Posts: 539

    6-71
    Member

    You should be able to get those tapered cone washers from any Heavy truck repair shop.I think they are used on drive axle flanges.They come in many different sizes. I used a pair on my Model A wishbones in my T-bucket. When you use the tapered cones,you will use a standard castle nut.
     
  22. SPEEDBARRONS
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,247

    SPEEDBARRONS
    Member

    Wheel lug nuts are what I use, chromed and otherwise


    Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
     
  23. 1930ModelA
    Joined: Sep 4, 2008
    Posts: 105

    1930ModelA
    Member

    Had the same problem. After reading this post I ordered the nuts from The Early Ford Store as recomended in an above reply. However, I received the same, incorrectly beveled, generic nut shown by SamIyam above. When I called TEFS they said they were unaware of any issues with this part. I then called Roy Nacewicz (which I should have done from the start) and he said to call Bratton's. Sure enough, Bratton's has their early ford perch nuts specifically made for them here in the USA!! I just received them and they are dead on repops of the OEM nut.
    Bratton's Part # 4300
    Thanks to SamIyam for the heads up on this critical issue.
     
  24. Thanks for the update! Glad to hear someone knows about the issue, and that we're bringing it to light with those who don't know.

    Now... have all you Bonneville guys running OEM (Ford Steelies) steel wheels checked your nuts?

    If you're running OEM steel wheels with 1" lug nuts as per the rulebook... you might have the wrong nuts!

    FWIW, there are different tapers on OEM wheels and aftermarket "stock car style" steel wheels...

    Guys buy the BIG NUTS... but don't check the taper.

    Something for the SCTA to look into when tech'ing cars... or to put into their rulebook.

    Sam
     
  25. DICK SPADARO
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,887

    DICK SPADARO
    Member Emeritus

    I read this post also when it first came out and checked inventory with mixed results some correct, some wrong angle. So I got on the phone with at least three MFG of the perch nuts. After explaining the issue I sent each a sample of the correct nut. At the present time they have been able to remedy the situation but I would still check the part before installing to see that the nut has a 60* taper rather than the lug nut 45*. You might also watch as I found some with the correct taper but the overall height was too long and the threads bottomed out before the taper married. I got a hold of the last supplier today and informed them also. This would hold true if you are purchasing from a smaller volume supplier also as they might not be aware of the issue either. The problem should be corrected thanks to the HAMB notification network.
     
  26. You know it's coming. Wait for it. Wait for it...

    Sam
     
  27. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,682

    The37Kid
    Member

    Just want to say "Thank You!" to Dick Spadaro for post #25. Nice to know he is on top of notifing suppliers of problems they may not know about. Parts may be parts, but it sure helps to have a good guy behind the counter that kows what is what. Bob
     
  28. Exactly!

    I'm glad Dick checked his nuts!

    Sam
     

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