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Technical CHASSIS, Reversing spring eyes...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by loudpedal, Jan 30, 2006.

  1. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    Here are the links to the previous posts on Mother Goose's Roadster:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89536
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80199


    We have decided that the aftermarket front axle had to go. The car demands a more period piece, so we dropped a stock Ford axle 4 inches so we can use it instead. You have to use a longer spring with the Ford axle and it just so happens that I’ve had this one from a Model A bouncing around in the back of my truck for a few weeks, so we are going to use it also. With it all mocked, the car now sits too high in the front, so we had to reverse the eyes on the spring.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


     
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  2. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    We are going to use stock Model A perches, shackles and shocks also…

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    We removed the main leaf from the pack..

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    Traced the arc of the main leaf onto the floor with chalk as a reference. Here’s a little tip if you are going to try this: Don’t make your chalk line right where you’ll be working so your feet won‘t erase it! (…learned that the hard way)

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    Rather than use the '2 bricks and a hammer' method, we built this jig instead. We made chalk marks every 1 inch on the spring, then moved the spring to each chalk mark after we pushed on it a little with the bottle jack.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    Just kept working it back and forth until the arc of the spring matched the one we traced on the floor 5 minutes earlier (yes it was that easy).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    With the eyes now reversed, the second leaf will no longer fit onto the main leaf, so the edges were trimmed.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    With the spring back on the car, the front is about an inch lower and sits just right…

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    Tomorrow we finish the wishbone mounts…

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. briggs&strattonChev
    Joined: Feb 20, 2003
    Posts: 2,231

    briggs&strattonChev
    Member

  11. LoudPedal,

    You made that look easy !



    CBB
     
  12. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,002

    Paul
    Editor

    nice simple tech

    thanks!
     
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  13. bcarlson
    Joined: Jul 21, 2005
    Posts: 935

    bcarlson
    Member

    Excellent! That is awesome! A question for the metallurgy guys... does this cause any negative effects? Is the spring less... er... 'Springy' after doing this? How about safety-wise... any chance of stress cracks, or failure at speed (above and beyond the original chances I mean)?

    Ben
     
  14. I like this idea. Similar to the way they do it at a spring shop, but more precise and more controllable. If ya' have press in your shop, make a fixture and away ya' go.

    I've been doing it the hammer and anvil method (but I don't have an anvil!). Here' what I've been using. It's an old rail road rail anchor plate that has a nice step in it.

    All this reminds me of the old phrase, "Don't work harder, work smarter". Looks like ya' got me beat in the smarts department :eek: .
     

    Attached Files:

  15. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    Yes, we tried it that way. Man what a lot of hammering without any noticable results! So we built the jig instead. It works great and it's simple.
     
  16. Bass
    Joined: Jul 9, 2001
    Posts: 3,341

    Bass
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    That's way better than wailing on it with a hammer. Nice work!

    A related question...are you going to c-notch the rails above the spring?

    That car is looking great!
     
  17. k-member
    Joined: May 25, 2002
    Posts: 2,114

    k-member
    Member

    You guys are awesome, great tech!
     
  18. Nice, did it take a lot of pressure at each point on the spring? Or did you just sneak up on it?
     
    ruddigger likes this.
  19. Very nice! This needs to go in the Techo-o-matic forum.

    I also want to hear from the metallurgists whether this has any adverse effects on spring integrity. I've heard that it's okay to reverse the eyes on the front spring, but that it's potentially dangerous on rear springs, but I've never quite understood why... anybody have a quick explanation?
     
  20. sodas38
    Joined: Sep 17, 2004
    Posts: 2,185

    sodas38
    Member

    Geesh, that looks too easy, I'll find a way to screw that up though :) Great tech!!!
     
  21. chrisntx
    Joined: Jan 20, 2006
    Posts: 1,790

    chrisntx
    Member
    from Texas .

    Are your tires gonna hit the radius rods?
     
  22. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah


    I don’t think that we will have to notch the frame. I’ve jounced the suspension and the spring doesn’t seem to come close to hitting the frame, but we still haven’t decided to do it or not yet… Does anyone have any input on notching the frame? Do you think it would be a problem if we didn’t do it??
     
  23. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah


    Just a little pressure is all it took, and we just went at it real nice and slow. Real easy to do…
     
  24. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,186

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah


    We planned on mounting the rear of the wishbones as far inboard as possible with the tie rod on the inside of the wishbone bracket. This moves the rear of the wishbones as far to the center of the car as possible, and when we mocked it last night, it kind of looked as if the wishbones were not cut at all. The spindles hit the steering stops before the tire hit the wishbone with gobs of clearance.
     
  25. buschandbusch
    Joined: Jan 11, 2006
    Posts: 1,250

    buschandbusch
    Member

    my spring (non reversed eyes stock suspension) sits about that close to the frame (just looking at the pics), and hits on potholes. Mine is also missing a couple leaves so that makes a difference, but you may want to put a rubber bumpstop
     
  26. I'm no metallurgist, but I can tell why it's dangerous to do the rear spring main leaf.

    Seems to me I remember a fella doing both the front and rear at the same time. The rear broke, but the front didn't. So based upon this single test case it has been deemed dangerous ever since to do the rear.

    But, wait a minute. I still have the story wrong. The info didn't come from the guy that actually did it. The story of the incident originally really came from his grandpa, who told his stepson's buddy's son, who then told of the problem to his cousin's step father. Ya' get the picture here :rolleyes: .


     
  27. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,165

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    I'm sure happy I found this - now, where were you 40 years ago ???
    Thanks for another great do-it-yourself !
    302
     
  28. Tetanus Shot
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,082

    Tetanus Shot
    Member

    this is a very helpful tech thread, thanks for the information it will help me alot
     
  29. leon renaud
    Joined: Nov 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,933

    leon renaud
    Member
    from N.E. Ct.

    Hey as a working blacksmith I gotta agree your way is FAR easier I didn,t think you could press a spring into shape I have done several front springs by the old method and one of the tricks is you use 2 "anvils"and strike between them I have 2 sections of railroad rail about a foot long welded to a piece of scrap plate so there are about 8-12 inches between the tops you strike between these.Now I cold flatten springs in the same way for making throwing knives I usualy use broken A springs because i get them from a restorer friend free. cold forming and careful grinding/shaping gives me a bowie blade that tests 58-60 rockwell without retempering etc.that would be needed in forgeing blades.I'm no metalurgist but its my guess that doing a rear spring causes trouble because of the shape that has to be reversed it's the same material as a front but more of a complex shape to reverse by hammering.I'm thinking of A or T rears here would bet it would be just as easy to reverse in your press as a front just take a bit longer.looks like I'll be dumpster diving at work tomorrow for the parts to my spring press.this is definiatly a post for the tech section .I learned how to reverse spring eyes before i got into blacksmithing from a late 40s car mag that ran an article on dago axles I think it was about mor drop foundry but the book has been lost for a real long time I got it as a kid in late 60s
     
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  30. I notched mine and plated the inside for strength. I would suggest it. We got big potholes up our way sometime. And if you guys are gonna come back up this way ever you might need the extra room. Keep in mind the weight of that slug you got in there. Those friction style shocks went outta vogue for a reason and your gonna need the extra clearance. By the way I'm using a similiar setup in my 34 project. Looks awesome Chris. Good job. How's the rest of the gang doing?
     

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