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Technical Changing wheel bolts to studs

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 57 Fargo, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Because I have the best wife ever, I now have the need to swap the wheel bolts to studs on the front of my 1957 Fargo. Anyone done this on an old Mopar? Pictures to come of what brought this about. The rear is a later 8 1/4 so it’s already good.


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  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,697

    squirrel
    Member

    do you still have a lefty? or are they both RH thread?

    It's pretty common for aftermarket racing stuff (like beefy rear axles, and Wilwood front brakes) to use fully threaded bolts, screwed in from the back. You might need to spot face the back side of the hole. But not likely to work with a left hand thread, so having an extra RH hub would be good.

    You can also bore for studs, again you'll probably have to spot face, and you have to play the tricky game of getting the correct stud, and the correct hole size, and it would be good to swage them as the factory did in later years.
     
  3. Still left but I do have another right hub, I was being lazy hoping someone had done it and had a stud/hole measurement already.


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  4. lemondana
    Joined: Feb 21, 2009
    Posts: 133

    lemondana
    Member
    from Lincoln NE

    Years ago on one of my 38 Plymouths, just to make a roller out of it. I found a stick of the 1/2 in fine thread allthread or readi-rod. Cut it in the correct lengths, beveled the outside end and tack welded them in on the back side. I see no reason why it would not be suitable for a driver.
     
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  5. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,848

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    If I understand you correctly, you can't be serious!
    Regular "all-thread" in my world as a machinist was equivalent to a grade 3 "butter bolt", and that's just the grade, the thread fit on all-thread is far from optimal also.
    Granted, higher grades are available but generally not a your local big box store.
    Your proposal in using it for a "roller" scenario may be acceptable, beyond that your putting your life on the line.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,697

    squirrel
    Member

    I recall we used some grade 8 fine thread 1/2-20 threaded rod on a robot project years ago, got it from McMaster Carr.

    But I'd probably be leery of welding it to the hub
     
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  7. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,020

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    @57 Fargo I have done several such conversions on both Mopar and Buick hubs. I sourced Dorman studs. using their catalog, which contains an extensive listing of studs varying in combinations of stud diameter, length, serration length and diameter etc.

    To give you a Dorman number for your Mopar I’ll have to do some digging in my shop but I can do that. I do recall settling on a drill size that provided about a .012” to .015” press fit between the serrated section of the stud shank and the stud hole diameter drilled in the hub flange.

    I remember having quoted that in a prior thread on this topic and getting flak about the “press fit” dimension and pointing out that, depending on diameter of components, it should only be .001” to maybe .002”. That may be accurate for smooth surface components, but the serrated stud shank has both major and minor diameters, like threads, and between the broaching that occurs in the hub hole and the deformation of the stud splines, it worked quite nicely. The Mopar hubs do not need spot facing as they are parallel surfaces inside/outside. I’ll try to get part number info posted by Saturday afternoon.
     
  8. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 5,641

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had a Dodge hemi-powered "T" bucket back in the sixties with a '53 Plymouth rear end. I found the proper sized fine thread grade-8 bolts, cut the heads off, screwed them in and welded them on the backsides. Everything worked out fine. I believe I originally re-threaded that left hand thread side with a right hand tap, but was dissatisfied with the fit and went to the boneyard and got another right hand threaded hub and drum. Ahh! the foibles of youth.
     
  9. If you happen to have the number I would appreciate it!


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  10. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 583

    KenC
    Member

    I bought a set of studs from a trailer parts place. Grade 8, 1/2x20 with a proper shoulder to fit 21/32" drilled hole. The splines cut just the right amount of material going in to hold tightly. Pressed them in on my mighty HF 20t. This was in a '56 Dodge 1/2T. All RH threads now!
     
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  11. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,020

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Okay...made it to the shop....more “early evening” than “afternoon”...:D

    5BA8D389-8372-413E-91C6-64EFC13974BB.jpeg 58C9DD14-8EC0-4299-A1F1-52903F1F5512.jpeg 5BC8758C-0ED6-4602-9FF0-325F8D2D056F.jpeg B6873404-C793-406D-B268-10C4A444F3FF.jpeg

    The Dorman number on theses lug studs is 610-183. In this application (‘51 Plymouth IIRC) the threaded portion protrudes 1” (of useful threads + about another 1/10th tapered tip). If you want more threads, using the dimensions of ‘183’ shank and surfing other studs should produce a similar stud with longer threaded portion. As for drill size to use, I chose a diameter about .012” to .015” smaller than serrated shank diameter, whatever that was. Hope this useful.
     
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  12. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,210

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    @Hnstray dude, you're a stud! :D Nice follow up bruz...:cool:
     
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  13. Thanks for the suggestions and the hard work Hnstray!! I appreciate it! I will order studs on Monday. I will post a picture of what started all this tomorrow.


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  14. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,848

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    That's why this place is so cool!
    Great tech post.
     
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  15. Halfdozen
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 620

    Halfdozen
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have some machine shop chops and have "restudded" a bunch of hubs and axle flanges over the years.
    It's just about impossible to drill a hole to an accurate press fit diameter. Twist drills, even good quality ones properly sharpened, usually drill slightly oversize and rarely drill a round, untapered hole. You will have better results if you drill undersize and ream the holes to the desired diameter with an adjustable reamer. .015" might be a pretty heavy press fit, depending on the stud serrations and hardness, and the hub material. You can split a cast iron part with too tight a press fit. With the adjustable reamer, if the stud is too tight a fit when pressed, you can open up the holes a few thou with the reamer. ftbrks 014.jpg ftbrks 009.jpg
     
  16. Yup I have access to reamers and a machine shop at the school I work at, plus I have two spare hubs!!


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  17. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,615

    noboD
    Member

    Squirrel, that was probably B-7 rod, very strong and not real expensive. We used it for our porta-power rods all the time. It's of the chrome moly family.
     
  18. Back in the olden days when I did mine, I just threaded in grade 8 bolts from the back side and tack welded the heads. Plenty of room in there and worked fine.
     
  19. 5D33D03E-A23C-4653-A3ED-2795D8E2EC57.jpeg


    If your Fargo is the same as my 53 Chrysler.
    I used jaguar wheel studs.
    Same thread as my 53.
    Just threaded them in on the right side and then welded them on the inside of the drum.
    On the left side I ran a regular tap through the left hand threads
    And tightened the studs in, then welded the back sides also.
    Worked out great.
    Strong , straight, is meant for this application and is North American fine thread. No silly metric or British stuff.
     
  20. This is interesting as well, I have two right side hubs, any idea on the year and model of jag?


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  21. IMG_1387.JPG IMG_1388.JPG

    This is what started it all, for my birthday which was last Thursday and Father’s Day my wife bought the wheels for me!! I’ve been looking for a while.


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  22. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,596

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I must have pressed and sweged hundreds of hub studs since '57. (lots of would-be linguists and 'journeymen' might vary on the spelling, but 'swedge' and 'suage' and similars define the practice of installation.
    'Sista Sledge', too. Heavy....
     
  23. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,596

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Welllll... you and I have exceptional ladies for wives. Happy Fathers' Day, one and all...
     
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  24. Yup, no complaints here. I’m very lucky!


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  25. They used this style for years
    95-98 xk8 and xk8 fir sure
    But I’m almost positive up to 05 on both those models
    And possibly older as well

    It was 15 years ago when I did this and just used what the dealership I was working at had in stock.

    Sorry I can’t be more help.


    4068398B-4B8A-4468-B94C-8BCEB5DD9A36.jpeg

    Your other option is bolt on adapters.
    The guy up here at all the swap meets has them as thin as 3/8ths

    Then just use your regular bolts and convert it to studs.

    I put a set of new style mustang bullit wheels on my 64 mercury Montclair and used a set of 1/2 spacers to push the wheel out some and fill the wheels well.
    Under $200 bucks and easy peasy lemon squeezy !!
     
  26. Awesome thanks for the info, I will look at options tomorrow, I hadn’t thought of spacers, that would be the simplest.
     
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  27. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 14,848

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I should have said grade 2 bolt.
     
  28. Smokeybear
    Joined: Apr 20, 2011
    Posts: 325

    Smokeybear
    Member

    I replaced the bolts on my 48 Plymouth with studs. I drilled the holes out to 17/32ths ( I think that was the bit I used, it was several years ago. Then pulled the studs into the hubs with a couple of washers and a nut turned upside down. Only took about an hour for both front hubs and they've held up perfectly for years. I've since upgraded to disks by drilling out the rivets holding the drum on and using the hub to hold the scarebird speced rotors, I think they were from a grenada. IMG00101-20110726-1844.jpg IMG00102-20110726-1844.jpg
     
  29. I have done it to a Buick before. Never a MOPAR. I just used screw in studs like they would use on a race car and screwed them in from the back side of the hub/flange. Worked for me.
     
  30. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,524

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Why not buy high grade machine studs, not automotive, and screw them into the hub with loctite? I have thought of doing this on old Mopars but never tried it. Don't know what you would do on the left hand thread side unless you switch the hubs or use left hand thread studs.
    As I said, I thought of doing this but never did, because it is unnecessary and a waste of time and money. The stock wheel bolts are fine.
     

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