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Technical Carter WCFB tech

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by carbking, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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  2. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 9,982

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What makes you think they will not? Between 1956 and 1961 there were thousands of 245 and 270 hp engines built by Chevrolet let alone the small Dodges and Plymouth’s with stock non-performance camshafts some under the 265” of Chevrolet. I have 2 on a 296” yblock with a stock 202hp camshaft and 8.5 comp ratio and an automatic transmission. They perform flawlessly and mileage is reasonable for the engine. They just need to be tuned correctly and depending how you are going to idle a UniSyn and vacuum gauge are a must. I have only adjusted my set twice in 5 years.
     
  3. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,935

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    So I did some more searching, and according to this list, the 2622S carbs were used on a bunch of different Makes/Models, including American Motors, Buick, Cadillac, Chevy (265, 283, single carbs and dual carb applications), Chrysler, Desoto, Diamond T, Dodge (including the D-500), Dodge Truck, Ford/Mercury, Hudson, Lincoln, Oldsmobile, Owens Marine, Packard, Plymouth, Pontiac, REO, & Studebaker. And they all used the same size Primary (.0945) & Secondary (.067) jet sizes. So I'm confused. Am I reading the chart wrong? Or is the chart itself wrong?

    https://www.carburetor-blog.com/knowledge-base/carter-wcfb-carburetor-jets/
     
  4. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,158

    carbking
    Member

    The good news about the internet.................................anyone can post.

    The bad news about the internet....................................anyone can post.

    Jon.
     
  5. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 9,982

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would also question that chart. Those cars listed have way different linkages. Externals jetting however could be the same and usually is when compression ratios are a consideration. I bow once again to the Carb King.
     
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  6. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,935

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

  7. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,158

    carbking
    Member

    I have posted this before, but:

    Virtually EVERY original equipment carburetor used on a U.S. produced car, truck, tractor, boat (inboard), or industrial application from about 1920 to 1974 is listed on my website. This includes, Autolite, Carter, Detroit, Holley, Marvel, Motorcraft, Rochester, Schebler, Stromberg, Zenith, and a host of other makes. A little research, and fairly easy to identify O.E. carburetors. There are currently about 99,000 records in the database.

    Using your favorite search engine, use this string:

    thecarburetorshop.com nnnn where nnnn is the carburetor number.

    In this case, the string would be thecarburetorshop.com 2622

    This will bring you to a number of pages. Try each one by clicking on it, and then use the "find on this page" tool on your browser. In this case, the first page I found had brand other than Carter, but both the second and third pages listed gave the answer for a Carter 2622.

    For Autolite and Motorcraft, ignore the 9510; thus a typical Autolite EDB-9510-AA would use the string EDB-AA (try looking this one up in your Holley listing, remember that many Autolites were other manufacturer's design, this one is a Holley).

    Jon
     
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  8. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,935

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    I just wanted to report back on my experimenting with those 2622SA carbs. I picked up this pair of matching carbs cheap, real cheap ($50 for the pair). Freshly rebuilt. I installed them on a 283 SBC, with an Offy 360 hi rise 2 x 4 manifold using adapters to match up the smaller carbs to the larger bolt pattern on the manifold. Due to interference between the rear carb and the distributor cap (WCFB's have a bulge on the rear side of the carb that doesn't exist on the AFB) I had to use a 1" spacer to raise the carb up and get some clearance over the distributor. I connected them up to run progressive linkage with the rear carb as primary, but they idle on both carbs. The engine runs excellent. May not be perfect, but damned close to it.

    The biggest issue I have is I cannot get the idle speed down as low as I would like it. I can run each carb alone (with the other carb blocked off) and it idles great at around 700 rpm's. I set the idle air/fuel mixtures on each carb one at a time, and the engine ran great with either carb installed alone. But when both carbs are installed together the idle speed increases to about 1000 rpm's, and will not come down. I have the idle adjustment screws backed all the way off, not touching the linkage at all. But the throttle shaft will not close any further, something is holding it open. On both carbs. I didn't snap any photos to share, but IMO there is just a hair too much of the transfer slot showing below the throttle plates, but the plates will not close down any further. I have a pair of cores I've looked at and I don't see anything internal in the cores that would hold the throttle plates open, I suspect there is something in the linkage on the carbs themselves that is causing this. The problem is not the linkage from the pedal to the carbs, I can have that completely disconnected at the carburetor and still cannot get the idle speed down. The issue is at the carb(s) themselves.

    Other than that I love the way it runs, excellent smooth transition from idle to acceleration, part throttle response, cruising, full throttle, everything is tits. I love it. It's far superior to the dual 2GC's I was running on the engine prior to this. Everything except the idle speed is better. The installation looks great, good eye candy. Everything but the idle speed is excellent. It's not anything I can't live with, but it would be nice to get that idle speed down to around 700 - 800, I would be a happy man with that.
     
  9. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,158

    carbking
    Member

    GUESSING: Since you are using Chrysler carbs, you might need a stronger throttle return spring. Chrysler used a really weird throttle return setup on lots of their carbs.

    But you might also look at fast idle cam position.

    Jon.
     
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  10. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,935

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Good thoughts Jon, thanks for the reply.

    I cannot manually force the throttle closed by hand. It is being held slightly open mechanically. On both carbs. And I did make sure it is not on the fast idle cam, that's not what's holding it open.
     
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  11. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 3,252

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You might take a look and be sure that the secondary blades are closing properly too.
     
  12. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,158

    carbking
    Member

    If checking the secondaries (post above) don't find the issue, try disconnecting the pump operating rod from the pump intermediate shaft. Occasionally, these rods get bent, and might prevent one of the throttles from closing. The rod can be bent at the angle (that is why the angle is present) to adjust.

    Another possibility would be the secondary throttle operating link. These also have an angle for adjustment.

    Jon.
     
  13. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,158

    carbking
    Member

    Your comment about idle on either at 700, but both at 1000 illustrates why I recommend SOLID linkage rather than progressive for the street.

    Whatever is causing the problem is still present; but the RPM is dropping 300 RPM due to the uneven cylinder fill density at lower RPM leaning some of the cylinders. It does get better as the RPM (and runner velocity) increase; but will never be as efficient as using solid linkage.

    Jon.
     
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  14. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,935

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    ^^^^ Ahhhhh, that makes sense.
     
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  15. saltracer219
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 829

    saltracer219
    Member

    I have found on a number of occasions that the previous rebuilder did not properly center the throttle blades (butterflys) during the rebuild, especially on the secondary side. You may have to remove the bases and hold them up to a bright light and see if there are any excessive gaps around the butterflys. You should be able to slightly loosten the screws and move them around usually by just slapping them closed a couple of times and gently retightening the screws. Be very careful if you attempt this as the screws are staked and will only allow you to slightly loosten them, any more than that they will break off unless you grind the staked end of the screw off.
     
  16. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,158

    carbking
    Member

    Saltracer - agreed, or put them in upside down!

    Jon
     
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  17. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,085

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Jon, what historical carburetor do all other carbs aspire to be when they grow up? What's your favorite design?
     
  18. saltracer219
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 829

    saltracer219
    Member

    Yes, I also have seen that done.
     
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  19. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,158

    carbking
    Member

    I am going to partially pass on this one, as my overall favorite street carburetor is not H.A.M.B.-friendly. As far as H.A.M.B.-friendly street units:

    Single barrel - Carter W-1
    Two barrel - 3-way tie Carter WCD, Rochester 2-G, Stromberg WW; if I have to pick one, then the WCD
    Four barrel - genuine Carter AFB

    But there are designs for performance (power), performance (economy), low initial price, beauty, tunability, etc.

    Some words in the English language to attempt to avoid would be first, last, best, worst, favorite, etc.

    And before someone jumps in with the typical "my dog is bigger than your dog", please remember Truck64 asks for my favorites. There can probably be as many opinions as there are H.A.M.B. members, and there is no wrong answer on favorites.

    Jon.
     

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