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Technical Carter WCFB tech

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by carbking, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. kilohertz
    Joined: Oct 5, 2020
    Posts: 52

    kilohertz
    Member
    from Vernon, BC

    Hello all,

    I am in the process of restoring my '49 Ford F-1 and it has the 239 Flathead in it. Planning on mild street rod and am starting to "hot rod" the engine. I have found an Offenhauser 4 bbl intake and was planning on the Holley 390 CFM but they are stupid pricey and requires an adapter plate so I am looking for an original small base carb, such as the WCFB. I have now found 2 of them, one compete except for choke coil and mixture screws, tagged 2333S and a core tagged 2354S, missing butterflies and choke coil, mixture screws, probably some other things as well. The mostly complete one is missing the idle mixture screws and my reason for posting is that, are there any other idle mixture screws that will work in this WCFB carb? I see reference to Rochester in numerous searches for the WCFB carbs. I know nothing of the history of Carter and Rochester but perhaps there is some crossover.

    I have a friend that has a few of the larger base 4GCs he said I could have for parts. Any idea if the old 4GC, larger base than WCFB mixture screws would work? Any other carbs' mixture screws that would work?

    Any other small base carbs you could recommend for the flathead?

    Thank you.

    Cheers
     
    GlassThamesDoug likes this.
  2. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    carbking
    Member

    Carter used at LEAST a dozen different idle mixture screws on the various models of the WCFB.

    Rochester used several, and they would not interchange with the Carter.

    The very best carburetor (opinion) for your application would be the Carter WCFB 2191s.

    The WCFB 2333s you mention should work fairly well AT ABOUT 8000 RPM'S.

    If you should decide to go forward with that carburetor, the idle mixture screws do come in the better rebuilding kits.

    Jon.
     
    AHotRod and Hnstray like this.
  3. kilohertz
    Joined: Oct 5, 2020
    Posts: 52

    kilohertz
    Member
    from Vernon, BC

    Good one Jon, :D, thanks. I don't think my flatty would be happy at 8000 RPM :(.

    Thank you for the recommendation, I just found your web site and am scrolling thru the pages of info, there is lots of good info there.

    I'll park the 2333 and 2354s on the shelf and move on.

    Any other carbs you know of that have that small base that may be suitable? My friend has a large shelf full of used carbs for the taking, I don't mind using an adapter plate but would prefer to stay with the small base square bore.

    I would consider something from you if you have the right one. you can PM me if you like.

    Thank you.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  4. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    carbking
    Member

    Other than looks, the adapter is not important.

    What is important is airflow!

    The Carter 2191s was used as original equipment on a 241 CID engine, very close to your 239.

    Second choice would be the scarce and very expensive optional Rochester 4-GC used on the early 1960's GM 215 aluminum V-8. But by far the best choice would be the Carter 2191s.

    If your 239 will be in a trailered racecar, there are other carbs that will work.

    But if you want to drive it on the street, you need to be concerned with airflow.

    Check the second line in my signature block! ;)

    Of course, you could always bore the 239 .125 oversize and stroke it half an inch! ;)

    Jon.
     
  5. kilohertz
    Joined: Oct 5, 2020
    Posts: 52

    kilohertz
    Member
    from Vernon, BC

    Thank you Jon. Okay, the search continues. The truck will be a summer time daily driver, no racing.

    I am just starting restoration and wanted to get the engine running correctly first, which I have now done, I can keep looking for the carb and carry on with the other 658 things that need doing, like brakes, steering column, driveline etc. :rolleyes:

    Cheers
     
    dirty old man likes this.
  6. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 21,991

    Roothawg
    Member

    Bump for those who are researching wcfb carbs.
     
  7. busyhornet
    Joined: Aug 7, 2013
    Posts: 38

    busyhornet

    How would i set up the 56 dual WCFB SET UP with an old hydro transmission.
     
  8. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    carbking
    Member

    Will leave this question to the transmission experts for physical hookups.

    Virtually every vehicle I have ever owned was upgraded to manual transmissions.

    From the carburetors standpoint:

    ALL calibrations should be enrichened by about 6~8 percent above those for a manual transmission because of the fluid coupling losses in the automatic.

    Jon.
     
  9. j grady
    Joined: May 14, 2012
    Posts: 6

    j grady
    Member

    regarding earlier post by me and someone else with same issue —- on non return to idle stop screw — only while engine is running ( vacuum ) I found the answer after a year of hassle .
    If the return spring is not perfectly 90 degrees to carb throttle shaft it end loads the shaft axially slightly . That pushes it to one side and then one side of a butterfly grabs the throttle bore just as it approaches fully closed , hanging it open . The vacuum pull jams it tight . that raises idle intermittently , drives you crazy as nothing is wrong with carb . arrange spring to be straight parallel to engine problem is gone!
    second , is the spring under the mixture rod vacuum piston the same on all wcfb? mine is missing , 57 dodge 325 poly power pack .
     
  10. Way to stay with and thanks for an update !
     
    loudbang and GlassThamesDoug like this.
  11. Collected 5x 1957 283 4bbls, some off running engines, put 3x of em on my dual intake, take throttle and deliver baseline fuel... now I can begin applying this tech info to them.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  12. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    carbking
    Member

    NO - several different versions.

    Jon.
     
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  13. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,715

    6sally6
    Member

    Hey!!...I musta missed........what does the WC stand for on WCFB?!
    thanx
    6sally6
     
  14. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    carbking
    Member

    Will Carter
     
    loudbang and stillrunners like this.
  15. Wrought Cast
     
    loudbang likes this.
  16. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 10,015

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No one knows…
     
    GlassThamesDoug and loudbang like this.
  17. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    carbking
    Member

    True, the folks that named it are long gone.

    However, friends in Carter Engineering and Carter Customer Service chastised me for calling it wrought cast some 40 years ago, and informed me in no uncertain terms that it was Will Carter. They also pointed out that the wrought cast iron throttle bodies did not appear until the mid-50's. The early throttle bodies were cast aluminum.

    So, at least for me, it will remain Will Carter.

    Jon
     
  18. Probably best found on a Print.
    Just searched.... by most to last in a quick scroll...
    Wrought Cast Four Barrel
    Will Carter Four Barrel
    Will Carter Four Bore
    White Cast Four Barrel <<<

    Find the Engineering Print then we will all know. A WCFB Carter book ... beat wrought (white) cast into my head.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
    loudbang likes this.
  19. FOUND THIS: Yes, WILLARD CARTER was the owner of the Carter Carburettor Company, but this particular carb wasn't named after him, but for the metal it was made of. Sorry, everybody, it always has been, and always will be, directly from Carter, and yes, for the earliest Buicks and every thing else, WHITE CAST FOUR BARREL, period, end of the confusion.
     
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  20. saltracer219
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 831

    saltracer219
    Member

    Just remember, if you look long enough you can find pretty much anything written in any narritive you want in print on the Internet.
     
  21. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 10,015

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’d would have named it DGFB……”Damn Good Four Barrel” for the way my dual quads work and run…;)
     
  22. Lookung for my Carter Book. "White Cast" was the terminology, not "Wrought Cast"...
    The Print or Patent would be definitive.

    I need to mark my shelf properly....WCFB is a safe play.
     
  23. I bought 5x 57 4bbls to build a dual carb 283 set up... will see if small cube motor likes em. Going 097 style cam as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  24. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    carbking
    Member

    Not that it really matters that much; but the terminology "Will Carter Four Barrel" is listed on page 6 of the "Carter Carburetors" book, 1st edition, by Dave Emanuel. Supposedly, Mr. Emanual got a lot of information directly from Carter when he wrote this book.

    As far as the prints are concerned:

    Carburetor type is listed as WCFB-nnnS or WCFB-nnnnS where nnn or nnnn represents a 3 or 4 digit number. I do have many of the prints.

    Jon.
     
    dirty old man likes this.
  25. Thank you.... Dave Emanuel.. would be right on with the industry.
     
  26. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,958

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    I picked up a pair of WCFB's at a swap meet, the numbers on the tag of both are 2622SA. I was told by one guy that these were for the Dodge D-500, but he couldn't say whether they were for the single or dual carb engine. I've searched the net but have not found a listing for tag numbers and corresponding applications. Can anyone clarify what these carbs were originally for? @carbking ? Anyone else?

    Thanks!
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  27. I dropped the A... this comes up.
    Did more looking, ...carb kit site noted All have a S, and .. SA, SB..and others were running engineering changes, but use same kits.
    1957-1958 Dodge Carter 2622S WCFB Carburetor *Remanufactured
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  28. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,163

    carbking
    Member

  29. 1957 D500 came up with the 2622 on one list I saw.
     
    GlassThamesDoug likes this.
  30. Plymouth, Dodge Desoto...I found the tag number. Try your search with these tags adjectives.
    Carter WCFB 4 Barrel Carburetor Carb Number: 2530S, 2530SA, 2532S, 2533S, 2622S, 2622SA, 2698S Applications: 1957 DeSoto - Power Pack 1957 Dodge - 8 Cyl. Automatic Transmission, Power Pack. 1957 - 1958 Plymouth - 8 Cyl. Power Pack.
     

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